{Replik} Statement of the VDI on the shortage of skilled workers & threats to leave: Systematic wage dumping or only individual cases?

69 responses to "{Replica} Statement of the VDI on the shortage of skilled workers & threats of resignation: Systematic wage dumping or just isolated cases?"

1. Adam Shilts

   Wow, this article is really challenging.

   Reply
2. Heiko

   If you have to write more than 200 unsuccessful applications with a good university degree, to hear that lack of work experience is a major obstacle, it is a disaster that companies prefer to have ready-made (cheaper) professionals from abroad, instead of bothering to train young graduates and give them a chance. And associations like the VDI also support this instead of advocating for their members.

   Reply
   1. Simone Janson

      First of all, one should not make the mistake of seeing the VDI as an association which is committed to its members. It is an employers' association. Recently, I talked to a computer scientist on the subject and said that it is a good thing that lobbying for employers is fully legitimate for the association to lobby for the interests of its lobby group. There remains only: exit.
      In fact, companies still have to learn to invest in training their skilled workers themselves. Often people are looking for someone with very special skills and if you didn't just happen to have learned that at university - no result. Looking abroad then seems to be the supposedly cheaper solution.
      Of especially medium-sized companies, I always like to hear about the great fear that one has before investing in the training of their employees for a lot of money, because these then change with the newly acquired competence to the next employer. This also shows how much the labor market will change for all parties involved.

      Reply
3. ARD fairy tale job market report: Too much feature section - too little analysis | Crosswater Job Guide

   [...] and comments that refuted this supposed shortage of skilled workers in reality. (Systematic wage dumping or just individual cases?) In this blog post, Marco Dadomo, press spokesman for the VDI, makes a pointed statement: [...]

   Reply
4. Klaus Piesters

   And why do many skilled workers leave the FRG and, in return, is the immigration of all possible stress factors for taxes and additional wage costs forced into the FRG?

   If you read the statements from VDI like this, you can only be amazed. Oh yes, to counter this poignant dismay journalism they give an interview Spiegel-On-line?

   Now you know what you are.

   Reply
   1. Simone Janson

      Hello Mr. Piesters,
      that immigration of stress factors is forced, I think for a rumor. If you are an engineer and have something to say on the subject, I would like to pass it on to a colleague of the ARD for a corresponding reportage.

      Reply
   2. Young Ing

      Explosive! Me: Engineer, Master's Master 2014, VDI Exit 2014! Stink sour on this business association! Isolated case?

      Certainly not! Several of my fellow students went out of their studies into unemployment! It is just easier for young professionals than older engineers as long as women and children do not exist. We young people have the choice between thousands of rejections and the hope of getting a job with a lot of luck or temporary work, modern slave trade, (excuse me: service providers - not yet so negatively affected - but an engineer cannot do any service based on his way of working perform .... anyway)! Ie bad salary, no company affiliation, you drive half of Germany ... another thousand negative reasons. But the variety of projects is so great and you are taken over by one company!

      The fact is: in the projects you end up when they are already running and flying before they are finished, so the tips are buffeted, who believes to be taken today, is mistaken! The corporations have already come to the conclusion that temporary work is a permanent solution.

      If someone doubts the non-existent engineer shortage, should try to get a job at a service provider, which has also become very difficult!

      Should someone think now, frustrated engineer with bad qualifications, be it: Einser conclusion, Auslandsaufenthalt, additional training, first experience as student auxiliary power! Jupp I bring with me, is not enough!

      To the ARD reportage gibs the now soon or gabs already? To express myself personally? No, then my odds are zero, even though I do not have much to lose!

      Reply
      1. Simone Janson

         Hallo,
         Unfortunately, they are not an individual case and I have already covered the issue in the media. Yes, on 22. July, there will be an ARD report on the subject, in the evenings before the day. Unfortunately, this is the dilemma of the story: everyone complains, no one wants to express himself anonymously. However, it is now too late anyway.

         Reply
5. Peter Meier

   Engineers can reckon. If, according to the financial department, there are 1,6 million working engineers, but 60000 new graduates per year, remain a studded engineer 26 professional years before he is released due to his age with about 52. Or only 60 percent of the trained engineers work as engineers, the others as taxis or chancellors, the latter being rather rare.
   If the employer (see Wikipedia) IW talks about the professional strength, then these figures are known as hard facts a) that they lie and b) that the VDI makes its own lies.

   This is what all the engineers have known for a long time.

   Reply
   1. Simone Janson

      Thanks for the calculation example. Until May, you have the opportunity to report on your experience in an interview with the ARD. If interested, please give.
      Regards

      Reply
      1. independent

         Why should you be so imprudent and publicly agitated? Not only we self-employed but also the employees are dependent on the fact that we have work and who is publicly expressed out there! I do not have to draw attention to the sad case from the MCNET forum, which has been publicly engaged and a union founded the engineer and then fired. Nobody touches the hot iron for fear, he gets problems! The public opinion is that there must be a skilled labor force and that howls all the wolves. The politicians are the builders of industry and not infrequently the beneficiaries of temporary work, see Mr. Clement. It would be an interesting thing for journalists to look after the many small donations that the bosses of the big engineering firms give behind their clients in the big companies, see a case in the Nürnberger Nordostpark. No, no, in such a politically desired situation, it is said to be good, to greet the foreign employees and to be nice to the outside, and to see that everything is politically correct and to see to the side that you can get your lambs dry. I still need two decades, as long as it will still be enough with the orders.

         Reply
         1. Simone Janson

            Hello self-employed,
            but when no one says anything, there will never be any change in public perception.
            In the broadcast the interview partners can also be anonymised. We are looking for someone who can also say something about the merits of specialists who have been trained abroad. Think about it.

            Reply
   2. Robert

      If this is an allusion to Mrs. Merkel, she is not an engineer in physics.

      @Simone Janson
      I find it here a very distorted representation of the situation of the engineers in Germany.
      Sure, there are people with whom it has run badly or badly, as in ALL professional groups.

      I studied electrical engineering and have been out of university for some time and really all of my former fellow students started their professional life on good terms. Nobody gnaws at the hunger cloth. The labor market situation is much better than in many other academic “branches”.
      It is also better than chemists, biologists and even physicists.

      I also have a lot of older colleagues, it is by no means that every “engineer” over 50 is “bullied”. On the contrary, they are in demand as specialists.

      The minority of engineers works in temporary employment.
      Fact.

      Since they always speak of “the engineers”: You have to differentiate between the disciplines. The labor market situation for horticultural engineers or textile engineers is certainly completely different (significantly worse) than that of electrical engineers or chemical engineers. I hope that this will also be addressed in this article on ARD, whatever it will be about.

      You should therefore not attach too much importance to the contributions of some frustrated people, who only comment on the Internet and probably do not get the hangover in private life.

      gruß

      Reply
      1. Simone Janson

         Hi Robert,
         You are the first person to represent this position.
         Maybe you would like to say something on the ARD program? I will gladly forward your contact!

         Reply
         1. independent

            but I'm curious, who is the one who has started at good conditions. I am currently (again) working at one of the largest electrical engineering companies in Germany and have been watching almost 10 years since embedded developers in electronics, software and microcontroller technology. A) less and less, b) always billger and c) more and more about time work and this by now about the domestic personnel service provider. Besagter AG annually collects millions of profits and pays its established engineers salaries around the 100.000 upwards, for new entrants there is not even half. I started working as mid-90er, there was up to 75.000 DM for an engineer with college degree. To today would be to the 60k. Many beginners do not even get 45k! That would not work if a large part of the engineers had an alternative. Beginners today are realtively cheaper to have and there is more than in my time is still a defect? The company has less and less demand, makes new developments abroad, then sends the self-employed there to manage. At the same time, the company writes one place after another, but does not occupy it! If one is experienced as an experienced one is already too old or gets a mickkriges beginner content offered, because the places from the outset are designed with persons with 5 years BE.

            How about the ladies and gentlemen journalists to send some actors to the departments who are applying with perfect CVs? Then you will see that engineers from 40 have virtually no chance unless they are specialist specialists who can be steered from the competition. The actors could then report live, how it is to apply to the service provider, how to be treated there and how to get the contracts across the table. I could call a case from my own experience, but I can not do it because I have been placed in a security area, and I can not open detailed information about my activity there. In addition, I could be sued for reputation damage, says my lawyer, so it means MUND, engineer.

            There remains then only the way of independence to get as synonymous over 40jähriger still a job, with increasing pressure! The fact is that most of the self-employed in my area are only about 70%, that is, thousands of working hours which could be increased if the companies actually needed more.

            Reply
            1. Simone Janson

               This discrepancy in the opinion interests me too!

      2. Svenja

         So you think that the shortage of skilled workers affects only engineers? I'm a physicist, but I wrote my thesis to the engineers. I can also translate the arguments of the job-seeking engineers to 100% into my area.

         Reply
         1. Simone Janson

            Thanks for the hint. No, I do not mean that only engineers are concerned, I can even imagine that it looks even worse for physicists because of the higher theoretical bias.

            Reply
   3. independent

      That's right, engineers can not only calculate, but also see and think, and what I see is an ever-expanding situation of temporary work and outsourcing to the self-employed. The fact that these do not appear in the unemployment statistics is eyewash, because the temporary workers are underPAID and the self-employed are underemployed! If the independent engineers working in Germany were to be fully utilized, tens of thousands of “missing” engineers could be replaced! That this is not being exploited is the best proof that there is no more work.

      The reason for the apparently increasing number of actuators is the time work! In the few areas that boom, people are being sought, which are not to be procured ad hoc and thus the companies have problems to occupy. So they write 5 temporary workers and they switch job ads without end. The tariffs to work there, but are unterrusch! Often enough 3000, gross and a voluntary allowance are offered. That no one finds there except for the unskilled and the unemployed leads now to an over-pointed search for foreigners. At the moment Spain is being looked for, what keeps the stuff and as the Spaniards sometimes realize that they are only used up and received much less than the Germans and especially the employed, this source is also exhausting. So the Chinese and Indians are brought into the country and our own engineers have to go down with the salaries when they change and they do not find a job because of the rising fluctuation once they are 50. Then they can work as technicians. They do not appear again in any statistic, because they are not unemployed. Talk to engineers from 50. There is almost nothing, if one was outside. I have colleagues for 40 - to offer the hour as an IT computer scientist and to do the simplest jobs, while the 30 year-olds get the good projects and get double the price simply because the competition among the old ones is too big.

      I have already written the VDI for a long time. If you listen to the political speeches at official events, the gentlemen there are only concerned about the management of the decline. They are aware of the members' quarters, but they can not escape their skin and most have settled there.

      Anyone who believes in the professional box office, set a profile on Monster or XING and wait for offers. There are only dubious recruiters and temporary workers.

      Reply
6. Helmut Kohl

   Anyone who still believes the lie about the lack of engineers in Germany is ignoring the facts. Just ask engineers, employment agency employees and entrepreneurs in your region about the alleged deficiency. Not only graduates but also older (over 50), experienced, qualified engineers are not hired. Price dumping and engineering service providers (temporary work) dominate the market. I've already heard from engineers who are looking for something, 'Oh, I'd have become a craftsman! or anyone who is an engineer is no longer allowed to have a family in order to be able to change work location at all times. '
   From my VDI (Association of German Engineers), which I have now paid for 23 years, I am now finally stepping down after the change that it has made in the past. Representatives of the interests of engineers in Germany - that used to be. “I'm not stupid…” even today's advertising says. Today's VDI (Association of German Industry) is sponsored by the same. They don't need my contributions anymore. The press, radio and television should deal with the VEREIN and its development not only with the ADAC!

   Reply
   1. Simone Janson

      Hello Mr. "Kohl",
      Thanks for the comment. A colleague of mine is looking for an ARD reportage by the way engineers, which she would like to interview on this topic. If you are interested, please give me a brief hint. Thank you.

      Reply
7. Simone Janson

   Hello, thanks for the hint. We have discussed the VDI figures again and again - e.g. here:

   Reply
8. Wirting

   How does the VDI come up with such numbers? These numbers are manipulated in my opinion. How exactly will the missing jobs be determined? I am an industrial engineer and unemployed like many others. In the meantime, I am applying for a job as an assistant, but I can not get one because of being overqualified. These numbers from the job market doubt me! The VDI seems to rely only on the information of the employer. In Germany we would not have enough engineers in Paradis, not enough doctors, not enough nurses, not enough skilled workers, not enough computer scientists, now even the artisans are in short supply (Huuhahaha). Reality is; wages and salaries are sinking everywhere (which should not be the case if there is a shortage (supply / demand).) The lecturers at the university uninhibitedly spread this propaganda into the students Purchase increases in the companies, it is less developed itself Simone Janson I do not know how the VDI determined these numbers, but have read somewhere in the forum that the VDI each vacant positions reported by the AG is multiplied by the factor 8 To be true then there are effectively only 10000 vacancies available for Ing., which results from my personal assessment as a realistic number factual To all who read my post Doubts the information on so-called SkillManl! All lobby propaganda by oversupply to bring the salaries of the engineers to an assistant worker level.

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9. wir-sind-vdiweb.de

   @dob: That you have formulated extremely aptly, respect:

   “The VDI now has a problem because for years it has sold a labor market analysis based mainly on company surveys as the current situation. Now he is in the situation of sticking to this procedure for all kinds of reasons, showing other figures as wrong and having to disqualify critics. "

   Join us on Twitter (also anonymously) or at our mailing list and above all: Spread the word… Tweet… link etc .. Thank you!

   Reply
10. dob

    Hello Mrs. Janson,

    thank you for this article and for following the “STEM skills shortage” discussion.
    After I have not pursued the topic for a while because of weariness, my first impression is that the DIW study and the many read commentaries in online forums with some delay nevertheless work. Thanks to its continuity and the links, your blog is a part of this.

    The VDI now has a problem because it has sold a labor market analysis based primarily on company surveys for years as an actual state. Now he is in the situation to hold on to bending and breaking this procedure, to represent differently determined numbers as wrong and to have to qualify critics.

    I wish the 'We are VDI' campaign every success.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Thanks for your comment. The campaign “We are VDI” is also looking for fellow campaigners. I am happy when my work helps make things a little better.

       Reply
       1. dob

          I have already registered, but I'm not a member of the VDI. Unfortunately, because I would like to leave with :-)

          Reply
11. Jemand

    If one demonstrates for the equal treatment, enlightenment and equal pay for equal work, that is only in the sense of the union :)
    of course, the same pay should be the same :)
    It was just an idea….

    My colleagues also do not consider the VDI. I can do it.

    Reply
12. wir-sind-vdiweb.de

    Within the EU there is complete freedom of movement for workers - anyone can work where they want, and that's fine.
    A demo at the Spaniard campaign at the end of June would be interpreted all too quickly as anti-European and xenophobic, I think - and that is far from me.

    A demo in front of the VDI headquarters in Dusseldorf I would find more interesting, since one could also call the press.

    I would be very happy if you help with such an action, perhaps in the autumn, as many people as possible.
    Help us to win further comrades-in-arms for * we-are-vdi * - links to ours on the net Email-Distributors bring us forward: Twitter, Facebook, Xing, mails, blog posts, comments….
    And if you have an idea that costs money, we can also provide you financial support.

    Anyone who would like to know more about our further activities, please send us a short mail. In addition * we-are-vdi * can also be followed on Twitter.

    Reply
13. Jemand

    Hi, thanks, we're reading-are-vdi not with?

    VG

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Yes, but sure is sight!

       Reply
14. Jemand

    If it is true that companies post fake tenders, then unemployed engineers could use various fakeemail-Create accounts and apply multiple times for a position :)

    then the pseudomangel would be pseudogeloest. :)

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello someone,
       well, certainly funny, but in my opinion not expedient. I would prefer concentrated actions, like that of “We are VDI”.

       Reply
       1. Jemand

          ok, but when brainstorming is no idea taboo and I think the reference to the event in late June was not wrong. If there were unemployed engineers for the purpose of protesting for the equal treatment of foreign engineers (so that the detouches themselves would get chances), the Spanish engineers would also open their eyes. You might even be able to solidarize with the Germans.
          The high level of unemployment in Spain has certainly not arisen due to the inability of the Spanish economic elite.

          Reply
          1. Simone Janson

             Hi Someone, this is a good idea. Turn around with it best wir-sind-vdi@web.de, which already have a large distributor for such actions and a little money around for possible costs.

             Reply
15. Jemand

    hehe, thanks for the flowers: D

    Oops, my post was iwie not complete, wanted to write that there is an event in Villingen-Schweiningen, take place at the many interviews, but that will be clear later, I hope :)

    Reply
16. wir-sind-vdiweb.de

    * I was amazed at this * => lol awesome expression.

    Reply
17. Jemand

    Oh, right! I wondered one here and was already despairing :)
    Thank you!
    I hope it interested.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Thank you, I look

       Reply
18. Jemand

    Why can not I post more? Wanted to refer to a recruitment event for Spaniards in Villingen-Schwenningen.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello someone,
       sorry, if there is more than one link in the comment, I have to release the comment first. This is to prevent that here all sorts of people advertise ;-) Otherwise, I would not get out of the sort out. I released the first comment and deleted the other two. Thanks for the hint!

       Reply
19. Jemand

    I got on the 15.5. an eMail: the curls of foreign forces continues. The 2011-founded cooperation between German and Spanish employment goes on, etc. and Villingen-Schwenningen probably comes again

    Most of Spain's job vacancies are in engineering.
    The links lead to offers and information about the presentations.

    <- program, it starts with the flying in of the skilled workers, who are then accommodated in hotels. Greetings, presentation of the region, blu, bla and trullala. On the 2nd day, June 26.6th the gentlemen will then introduce themselves during the day in a huge interview event.

    If someone - rightly - wants to demonstrate, he should consider: the Spaniards are being used, they do not come to take someone's job because they really believe in a shortage of skilled workers. You don't know the situation here.

    The original text of the mail for people who know Spanish:

    Continua en 2012 la colaboración entre los Servicios Públicos de Empleo de España y de Alemania en iniciada 2011 y encaminada al reclutamiento de personal cualificado español para trabajar en Alemania. La mayoría de las ofertas que nos llegan siguen siendo dento del ámbito de las ingenierías, aunque también solicitan profesionales cualificados del metal y en menor medida profesores de español para educación secundaria y Turismo-Hostelería.

    Se va a modificar la gestión de los procesos de selección que se realizarán a lo largo de este año. Estamos haciendo un último envío de información desde este buzón de correo para difundir la convocatoria de

    Proceso de Selección para Alemania (Villingen-Schwenningen)

    Disponibilidad de toda la información al respecto aquí:

    (Noun, masculine) (adjective). (Noun, feminine) (adjective). (Noun, feminine) tenant (noun, feminine)

    Ofertas, convocatorias y proyectos de emplação de la web del Servicio Público de Emplo Estatal (SEPE):

    En cuanto al sector sanitario este año se ha iniciado una colaboración con el equipo de EURES Alemania que se ocupa de este sector para reclutar profesionales de la Medicina y que nos ha pedido enfermería la difusión de esta información:

    Les recordamos que en general sigue siendo imprescindible como mínimo un nivel intermedio de Alemán (B1) aunque en determinadas ofertas de empleo aceptan and B2 de Inglés: B1 / B2 del Marco Común Europeo de Referencia para las lenguas

    Reciban un cordial saludo,

    Equipo EURES España.

    (si ha contactado varias veces con nosotros es posible que reciba varias veces esta información)

    Reply
20. we-are-vdi

    @Kurt_C_Hose @VDI_News Unfortunately you have to disillusion something, see here:

    Reply
21. Jemand

    Hmm ?! I had just posted? Is checked or has not worked.

    Thanks for the appreciation. My other home country is Spain. They say there are jobs en masse in Germany. People are enthusiastic about the introductory talks in Madrid and from the aircraft charter campaigns when engineers are flown to Germany for introductory talks in special machines, because it is not known that the companies have to pay for the travel expenses. The Spanish engineers, whom I appreciate and like, offer themselves here for salaries that German companies still consider net requests. But even then it is still less than what a German could ask for ... In any case, my rental company is happy with the placement of Spanish workers. It is noticeable that many engineers work in hiring companies in human resources.

    If the other contribution is checked, it does not have to be allowed here.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hallo,
       sorry. No, the comment just did not appear, sorry, there must have been something wrong. No, is not checked.
       This is precisely the problem with the Blue Card, which criticizes the DIW.

       Reply
       1. Jemand

          Oh, so can happen sometimes. No problem.

          Reply
22. someone

    Hallo,

    very well written. I have two home countries, Germany is one of them where I grew up. I spent a couple of years in the other home country, where my jobs there in Germany were presented to my fellow countrymen. Not me. I now have one that does not correspond to my profile, while my other countrymen get jobs that I have applied for. The whole work of temporary work is going on to my mind and that one is blindly pushed into places to get anything at all. I am wrong for what I am doing and / or - overqualified and deathly, because I obendrein is also constantly criticized. Maybe I have to turn my back on both homeland.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello someone,
       Exciting topic, thanks for the comment.
       Just these days I have read about the unplanned run of Portuguese specialists at Schwäbisch Hall:
       Since it would interest me, of course, which second home country is and what the people there told about the situation in Germany.

       Reply
23. I

    This is a very nice blog! What strikes me, however, is the discontinuity in the VDI's self-image. Here is an example from an interview with Mr. Dr. Fox from the Spiegel Online.

    "CareerSPIEGEL: As a substitute for engineers, should not you clearly take sides in the salary debate and demand wage increases?

    Fuchs: We are not a union. We are still close to business. "

    And at the same time in the above-mentioned opinion:

    "The VDI represents the interests of its members and not the interests of companies."

    This means that the Association of German Engineers (VDI) is an employee-oriented employee representative or a business-friendly business association. Nice that one could connect something with one another conflict-free.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hi I,
       Thanks for the compliment to the blog, we are looking forward to it! :-)

       Reply
24. Joseph

    Hallo,

    I am not an engineer, but we have also accepted the subject of professional defense in Germany, in our blog.
    I am of the opinion that in some areas there is already a professional deficit. In many areas, however, I do not find the large-minded expert defenses.

    It is also wrong to go after the job offers. I myself regularly look through the vacancies. It is unbelievable how many of them are written out over years and not occupied. Now one might think that the companies can not find any forces. From a good source, however, I know that many well-qualified specialists apply for jobs that show only minor deviations from the job profile. Therefore, I believe that many jobs will only be given for image purposes.

    friendly greetings
    Joseph

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello Joseph, that is certainly also an aspect of the addition and the statistics distorted. Thanks for the post.
       Simone Janson

       Reply
25. Rick-NRW

    If, according to the VDI, 70.000 + engineers are looking for the right tool.
    Where are these companies?

    So far, I only hear the employers' associations moaning about a looming engineering and skills shortage. The threat I hear since about 25 years ago.

    I have a job with an engineering service that even calls temporary work.
    So I can completely apply myself further.

    Job offers: 90% Temporary work
    Among other things, a nice invitations to a discussion at a temporary work / personal mediator in my area (NRW).

    "Due to the large number of applicants, we cannot reimburse you for travel expenses to the interview." (that would have been around 10 €)

    This deficiency must be terrible.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello, the latest figures and the foundation of the anti-VDI-Initiative have you seen?

       Reply
26. Jupp

    This dissolute lobbyist association doesn't even have a professional to write the press releases. Mr. Marco Dadomo (press spokesman for VDI) makes the “that - that” error three times. Bungler!

    If the rest also works like that, then I'm not surprised.

    Jupp

    Reply
27. damaged

    I think I do not have to point that out, but still:

    Spiegel:
    Dramatic academics study: Merkel's education is sounding the alarm

    Apart from the fact that the lack of academics / engineers is of course completely capped, I prophesy in the aftermath of such an article & study, obviously placed by the corresponding lobby groups:
    that the employers' associations are crawling out of their mudholes, scrape off the morass, and make it clear that one should work on the flexibility and the (too high) salaries to remedy the lack of engineering. Because nothing attracts professionals more than lower salaries and unsafe employment, it is clear.

    A little funny aspect: in all these lobby items, complete contradictions are hidden, which are tricked with a trick (?).
    "Although the number of university graduates in one year has risen from 2000 to 18 percent since 25, Germany is falling behind internationally."

    In principle, the conspicuous contradiction is always taken up (e.g. also with regard to the falling engineering salaries and the precarious mass employment situation of engineers) and questioned with a succinct sentence - admittedly without arguments. “Despite falling salaries, there is a shortage, companies don't get engineers”.

    Then even engineering service providers (= temporary work, and NOTHING else is that) pose as positive and ignore that all companies outsource their engineer as low wage, yes Daimler his engineering company even SOLD and finished is the lobby Verarsche. Sorry if I repeat myself partially.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello, Completed,
       Maybe I do not even have to point out the concerted action that has just been launched against the VDI:

       You can connect like-minded people there and direct your understandable anger into constructive paths.

       Simone Janson

       Reply
28. We-are-VDI

    Hello injured party & Ms. Janson

    unfortunately I have only now the opportunity to contribute to your excellent discussion. The letter cited above in the excerpts to the VDI comes from me, thank you for your recognition.
    I just got a new one Email-Address created (wir-sind-VDI@web.de) in order to bundle our interests. I think something can get rolling.

    I have references from a serious source, which says that the VDI with wrong figures to the alleged professional defenses operate.

    If you want to be kept up to date on the next steps => please send a short mail to *wir-sind-VDI@web.de*

    gruß
    wir-sind-VDI@web.de

    Reply
29. damaged

    Is there anything new about the “future of work”? I haven't found anything about the topic here or in the mainstream, and there was nothing new on the page for appointments (after this date).

    Incidentally, the employers' association VDI feels called to pay homage to the lack of engineers - and as always, the answers are beyond credible or satisfactory:

    Controversial subject of skilled workers - “Half of engineers will soon be retiring”
    

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello victim,
       but I have the whole discussion mitgeschnitten, listen here:
       However, little was said about this, so the focus of the article is on another excitement.
       As for IBM, there have already been a few messages. However, I have on the occasion of my presentation with the labor lawyer Professor Dr. Conversation with Peter Wedde, who did his doctorate on the subject of teleworking at IBM (see e.g. www.sapler.igm.de/static/…/PeterWedde_SAP-Website_2007.pdf) and says that the idea is an old idea in a new guise, that already didn't work 20 years ago. I also wanted to read in - but: time ... sorry.
       I am, of course, glad about further information on the subject.
       SJ

       Reply
30. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    thank you for this very useful tip. Fittingly, on February 8, there will be a discussion between Federal Labor Minister Ursula van der Leyden and Katharina Borchert from SPON on the subject of the “future of work” - of course that fits perfectly. I will report on the discussion. Possibly. there is also a video or the thing is streamed. For more information, please click on dates above - and then on said date.

    Also, this is a very good example of a lecture that I am holding just this evening. So double thank you!

    Reply
31. damaged

    Here again a small, very very very sad addition to this:

    “[...] In future, the group will only be managed by a small core workforce. IBM, on the other hand, wants to recruit specialists and skilled workers on a specially founded Internet platform. [...]

    Similar to the social network Facebook Employees in the IBM model could receive ratings and testimonials from employers that are then viewed by other companies. The workforce organized in a “cloud”, it is said in the IBM paper, would receive international employment contracts in order to circumvent restrictive regulations in their respective home countries.

    In addition, they should be employed only for the duration of the respective projects. Such a system, where global workers compete for short-term jobs on Internet platforms, would bring huge savings to corporations such as IBM and significantly increase efficiency.

    […] The number of permanent full-time jobs fell from 1999 to 2009 by 18,5 percent. [...] At the same time, the number of atypical forms of employment - such as temporary work or solo self-employment - rose by almost 79 percent. "

    Reply
32. damaged

    Too bad that this topic (at least here, I am not writing on microcontroller.net) is not reger discussed.

    I would like to report on my "individual case" on the occasion. As mentioned several times, I am absolutely dissatisfied with the job and the future prospects of the engineer despite very good employment.

    Some time ago I started an application initiative to sound out the market. I sent a total of almost 60 applications. It was not possible for me to place more than 12 applications for advertised positions. There have been jobs, but the demands are RIDICULOUS. I fit the 12 digits almost perfectly. The rest were speculative applications - but only where these were explicitly required (and this is not often the case despite the blatant “lack of engineers”).
    Now, a long time later, I can announce that I've got in the engineer belt belt here in the southern Germany exactly 0 answers or invitations.
    That doesn't surprise me, because IBM, Daimler MBtech (which incidentally runs a PR image campaign disguised as job offers!), NSN and a few others are “straightening out” the “tense” engineering market.
    Before someone is to blame again, on an individual basis, ... thinks:

    LAST WEEK I applied for a non-technical job that took me in a completely different direction. The conditions - especially the salary - are certainly worse at the beginning, but better safe than unemployed in the near future.

    And lo and behold: I have an interview immediately!

    I was completely amazed, I have never experienced this as an engineer! You apply and will be INVITED!

    I explain to someone why the hangerdig seeking companies the engineer not at least invite or at least cancel (no, I'm certainly not in-the-loop, which have no buck on the effort of the cancellation).

    So, with a bit of luck, I soon leave the profession and start in an exciting, challenging and, above all, human area, which has very good prospects for the future, in contrast to the engineering profession.

    Funnily, I then count to the 1 / 4 engineers who work off-board and distort the statistics of the lack of engineers.

    Reply
33. damaged

    Thanks for this article and the efforts of the anonymous engineer (unfortunately was not me), he speaks to me from the soul and reveals the condition of both the VDI and the employers' associations.

    I would like to point out another “problem”: no other occupation is so strongly affected by outsourcing abroad as the development engineer. Whether Bertrand does the job in Germany or any Indian / Chinese service provider does not matter to the employers. A small example is the sale of MBTech (ex-Daimler's own engineering service provider) to a French service group, motto: are only engineers who develop product components (e.g. drive trains).

    In fact, in the future - in addition to the oversupply of engineers that already exists - we will see the massive reduction in engineering positions. The 500000 "vacant" positions quickly become 100000.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello victim,
       Thank you for the additions: Do you have studies that take the outsourcing abroad?
       In addition, you can also write to the VDI and support the action.

       Reply
       1. damaged

          No, unfortunately no studies. My knowledge is related to our own way of working (unfortunately) and to a knowledge about a certain big automotive supplier. Would be nice if this were quantified. I see the analogy to the skilled worker, because what can be outsourced (no matter how bad) the WIRD is outsourced according to company logic.

          What one could probably simply quantify would be the growth and the absolute numbers for engineering temporary work and engineering service providers (-> badly disguised temporary work), which assume frightening proportions - but you have already (partially) reported on that. IMHO, this is just as good an indicator that the engineers will soon see zapping duster ...

          I'm also willing to take the engineers also actively to take sides, even against the VDI but I'm NOT a VDI member (but VDE). It was clear to me long before I recognized the disastrous state of the engineer that the VDI is an employers' association and represents massive employer interests.

          In the Wikipedia discussions on the VDI, by the way, there are good arguments about the VDI - and that it now operates purely as an employer lobby:

          http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Verein_Deutscher_Ingenieure

          excerpts:
          “It is also a fact that the lobbying work (shortage of skilled workers / EngineerING Card) of the VDI is now not only criticized by the media, other engineering associations and unions, but also among the personal VDI members numerous protests in the form of letters to the editor, articles in caused the VDI news and forum posts. The dissatisfaction of some of the VDI members spiegelt is also reflected in the poor survey results in the 2011 member survey, which, unlike in previous years, was no longer published on the VDI homepage, and in 2010 even led to the establishment of a community of interests against the lobbying work of the VDI.

          Another little fun fact:
          I also let the wrong promises lure me into studying engineering (yes, I also wanted to become an engineer and I HAVE the skills and interests, but also yes I would never do it again and would otherwise have chosen a profession with prospects). Now 14 years have passed! So I hear this INCREDIBLE lamentation, there would be an engineer shortage "soon" for MORE than 14 years. How many 14 years will it take until there is a real shortage of engineers? How ridiculous can you make yourself as an employers' association?

          Reply
34. character Display

    #Blogpost statement of the VDI on shortage of skilled workers & threats to leave: Systematic wage dumping or just egg ...

    Reply
35. Simone Janson

    #Blogpost statement of the VDI on shortage of skilled workers & threats to leave: Systematic wage dumping or just egg ...

    Reply
36. Liane Wolffgang

    VDI statement on the shortage of skilled workers & threats to leave: Systematic wage dumping or just individual cases? ...

    Reply