{Replica} Why STEM studies make sense: help, lack of skilled workers!

237 Responses to "{Replica} Why studying STEM makes sense: help, shortage of skilled workers!"

1. The discussion about the shortage of skilled workers here in the blog - Part 1: A summary of my ARD interview | PROFESSIONAL PICTURES

   [...] it is also clear to people that other professional groups are also worse off, but my reader Roland puts it very nicely on the [...]

   Reply
2. The discussion about the shortage of skilled workers here in the blog - Part 1: A summary of my ARD interview | PROFESSIONAL PICTURES

   [...] it is also clear to people that other professional groups are also worse off, but my reader Roland puts it very nicely on the [...]

   Reply
3. The discussion about the shortage of skilled workers here in the blog - Part 2: A summary of my ARD interview | PROFESSIONAL PICTURES

   [...] The argument is used by politicians in a completely unreflective and undifferentiated way. As one of my readers said so beautifully: [...]

   Reply
4. The discussion about the shortage of skilled workers here in the blog - Part 2: A summary of my ARD interview | PROFESSIONAL PICTURES

   [...] The argument is used by politicians in a completely unreflective and undifferentiated way. As one of my readers said so beautifully: [...]

   Reply
5. Skilled labor shortage - a fairy tale: A job for the engineers Karen & Sandra | PROFESSIONAL PICTURES

   […] I introduce you to Karen? Karen studied engineering in Erlangen, is currently looking for a job - and gave me [...]

   Reply
6. Skilled labor shortage - a fairy tale: A job for the engineers Karen & Sandra | PROFESSIONAL PICTURES

   […] I introduce you to Karen? Karen studied engineering in Erlangen, is currently looking for a job - and gave me [...]

   Reply
7. In keeping with the discussion on the shortage of skilled workers here in the blog: Engineers as temporary workers and Audi HR managers in need of explanation | PROFESSIONAL PICTURES

   […] A few weeks ago, a good discussion about the shortage of skilled workers began on my blog, to which more and more readers are now speaking up. This video is one of the many materials that [...]

   Reply
8. In keeping with the discussion on the shortage of skilled workers here in the blog: Engineers as temporary workers and Audi HR managers in need of explanation | PROFESSIONAL PICTURES

   […] A few weeks ago, a good discussion about the shortage of skilled workers began on my blog, to which more and more readers are now speaking up. This video is one of the many materials that [...]

   Reply
9. Attractive doctor games: which job makes you sexy? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

   [...] To increasingly convince women to also take up technical professions (see here for more on this!): Perhaps those responsible should also consider this not-so-rational aspect [...]

   Reply
10. Attractive doctor games: which job makes you sexy? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    [...] To increasingly convince women to also take up technical professions (see here for more on this!): Perhaps those responsible should also consider this not-so-rational aspect [...]

    Reply
11. Maximum earnings and a lot of personal freedom: Do the youngsters simply expect too much? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    […] We have discussed Karen's difficulties entering a career as an engineer here in the blog. She also criticized the missing number of [...]

    Reply
12. Maximum earnings and a lot of personal freedom: Do the youngsters simply expect too much? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    […] We have discussed Karen's difficulties entering a career as an engineer here in the blog. She also criticized the missing number of [...]

    Reply
13. My "Prince Charming Strategy" for women in STEM subjects: Emancipation through the back door? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    [...] women should also increasingly be convinced to take up a technical profession, as this article [...]

    Reply
14. My "Prince Charming Strategy" for women in STEM subjects: Emancipation through the back door? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    [...] women should also increasingly be convinced to take up a technical profession, as this article [...]

    Reply
15. Companies ready for dialogue or only apparent openness: This is how applicants really see HR professionals! | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    [...] studied engineering at the moment looking for a job, yesterday wrote a rather rude comment on my blog to which I was initially tempted not to answer because I [...]

    Reply
16. Companies ready for dialogue or only apparent openness: This is how applicants really see HR professionals! | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    [...] studied engineering at the moment looking for a job, yesterday wrote a rather rude comment on my blog to which I was initially tempted not to answer because I [...]

    Reply
17. Maximum earnings and a lot of personal freedom: Do the youngsters simply expect too much? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    […] We have discussed Karen's difficulties entering a career as an engineer here in the blog. She also criticized the missing number of [...]

    Reply
18. Maximum earnings and a lot of personal freedom: Do the youngsters simply expect too much? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    […] We have discussed Karen's difficulties entering a career as an engineer here in the blog. She also criticized the missing number of [...]

    Reply
19. Attractive doctor games: which job makes you sexy? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    [...] increasingly convince people to also take up technical professions (for more on this see here!): Perhaps those responsible should also consider this not-so-rational aspect [...]

    Reply
20. Attractive doctor games: which job makes you sexy? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    [...] increasingly convince people to also take up technical professions (for more on this see here!): Perhaps those responsible should also consider this not-so-rational aspect [...]

    Reply
21. Embarrassing dispute over DIW study, media crime and successful crowdsourcing: shortage of skilled workers or not? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    [...] Karl Brenke, of which I have long been convinced by the many contributions to the discussion in this blog (see also here!) (Or at least that it will not be so serious [...]

    Reply
22. Embarrassing dispute over DIW study, media crime and successful crowdsourcing: shortage of skilled workers or not? | Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    [...] Karl Brenke, of which I have long been convinced by the many contributions to the discussion in this blog (see also here!) (Or at least that it will not be so serious [...]

    Reply
23. In line with the discussion on the shortage of skilled workers here in the blog: Engineers as temporary workers and Audi HR managers in need of explanation Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    […] A few weeks ago, a good discussion about the shortage of skilled workers began on my blog, to which more and more readers are now speaking up. This video is one of the many materials that [...]

    Reply
24. In line with the discussion on the shortage of skilled workers here in the blog: Engineers as temporary workers and Audi HR managers in need of explanation Profession pictures by Simone Janson

    […] A few weeks ago, a good discussion about the shortage of skilled workers began on my blog, to which more and more readers are now speaking up. This video is one of the many materials that [...]

    Reply
25. Lars Hahn

    So there are diploma theses in times of Bologna! ;)

    Hello Mr. Beck,
    if you would like to ask the engineering gap times, I would have a few points of view to the usual sites like:
    http://www.vdi.de/41790.0.html
    http://www.mintzukunftschaffen.de/mint-luecke-20.html
    Svenja Hofert has already shed some light on this in her blog:
    http://karriereblog.svenja-hofert.de/2011/09/der-grose-bluff-mit-mint-geruch/

    I think there are a lot of skilled workers in many industries, even a long-term lack of care. However, the argumentation in public discussion is often unilaterally determined by interests of workers' demand. This could eventually lead to an excess of certain MINT traps, as it is bent and broken.

    Exciting is the theme.

    In this sense,
    good luck with your work!
    I am also curious!
    Lars Hahn

    Reply
26. Simone Janson

    Hello Mr. Beck,
    First of all, I find the topic of your diploma thesis very exciting and I would be pleased if you would make my diploma thesis results available to me and my readers after completion / publication.
    My Opinion spiegelt is reflected in the last two articles in my series:
    Namely, that the topic is on the one hand much too polemically discussed and one must, for example, first have to consider what is actually meant by professional force. Asked: Is not everyone a specialist anywhere? That on the other hand some companies want to continue to be comfortable with the selection of candidates and therefore the skilled labor force somewhat cynically as a marketing tool. While other companies do not really find any suitable people (which in turn may or may not have other reasons). In short: a differentiated view is necessary and the whole topic is unfortunately far too generalized. I do not believe in a large-scale conspiracy, as suggested by some commentators. Rather to many small shortcomings.

    On the other hand, the marketing lie is also often too readily believed - by universities, graduates, students and the shortage of skilled workers is somehow quite comfortable. I wrote a little rant about it:

    I am looking forward to your diploma thesis.
    Regards
    Simone Janson

    Reply
27. Rafael Beck

    Dear Ms. Janson, I am currently writing a thesis on the shortage of STEM skilled workers in Germany and the possibilities of educational policy and educational campaigns to avoid the shortage.

    I have read through your articles and rummaged through the comments with pleasure.

    I now have a question for you personally: What conclusions do you draw from the discussion about the MINT expert deficit in Germany?

    It would be nice to know how you are to this controversial discussion.

    Sincerely,

    Rafael Beck

    Reply
28. Liane Wolffgang

    Question about the diploma thesis: The discussion about the shortage of STEM specialists: Dear Ms. Janson, I am writing ...

    Reply
29. Emery Obermeyer

    Very good. Thanks for share it.

    Reply
30. Emery Obermeyer

    Very good. Thanks for share it.

    Reply
31. Roberto Helchheim

    Simone Janson says: (15 March 2010 at 08: 21)
    “..What is also due to the fact that in my opinion the Federal Employment Agency would like to ensure that people study a comparatively safe thing and then specifically apply for appropriateCourses. .." Really ? Why don't you go to your “employment agency”, his first official act is to call up Brunel / Ferchau's and their company's webpage in your browser and tell you “why not apply there”. I've seen it myself that I really had to control myself otherwise a criminal record would have been made about me. If I were to go to the competition at my workplace, I would be thrown out on the street by return of post. Rightly so! ***
    But the problem in Germany is I think completely different.
    I am e.g. looking for a really good digital camera (Spiegelreflex format). It can cost a lot of money. The only condition that must (exclusively!) Be designed and manufactured in Germany. Strangely enough, I don't find any. Would also choose internships, Leica, etc., but are they 100% made here? I can hardly imagine. Does anyone understand? It is clear that as long as I only choose foreign products for PCs, laptops, cameras, cars, ... I shouldn't be surprised that there is no longer any need for production here. Am I the only one who notices? As far as I can remember, the term “Made in Germany” once stood for a high standard of manufacturing, production and quality worldwide. Maybe I should also do the “master” to understand all of this. I just cry when I see how our know-how goes to Malaysia / China / Russia / etc. without batting an eyelid. will be carried. The term “engineer” used to stand for products that not every Fuzzi can simply copy. “In the past,” for example, Americans licked their fingers after reading German Grundig data sheets because they were the only ones. Today I HAVE to read English data sheets here in Germany. Strange isn't it?

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello Mr. Helchheim,
       thank you for your experience report - and for carefully reading my past posts ;-)
       Certainly consumers' buying behavior also plays a role: I believe, however, that consumers are not only cheap to buy at any price but also willing to pay a little more if quality and / or service are right. Exactly with customer service and innovative ability lack however mE with German companies. A compulsory obligation to buy only German products would be the wrong way and would not work.
       gruß
       Simone Janson

       Reply
32. Roberto Helchheim

    Simone Janson says: (15 March 2010 at 08: 21)
    “..What is also due to the fact that in my opinion the Federal Employment Agency would like to ensure that people study a comparatively safe thing and then specifically apply for appropriateCourses. .." Really ? Why don't you go to your “employment agency”, his first official act is to call up Brunel / Ferchau's and their company's webpage in your browser and tell you “why not apply there”. I've seen it myself that I really had to control myself otherwise a criminal record would have been made about me. If I were to go to the competition at my workplace, I would be thrown out on the street by return of post. Rightly so! ***
    But the problem in Germany is I think completely different.
    I am e.g. looking for a really good digital camera (Spiegelreflex format). It can cost a lot of money. The only condition that must (exclusively!) Be designed and manufactured in Germany. Strangely enough, I don't find any. Would also choose internships, Leica, etc., but are they 100% made here? I can hardly imagine. Does anyone understand? It is clear that as long as I only choose foreign products for PCs, laptops, cameras, cars, ... I shouldn't be surprised that there is no longer any need for production here. Am I the only one who notices? As far as I can remember, the term “Made in Germany” once stood for a high standard of manufacturing, production and quality worldwide. Maybe I should also do the “master” to understand all of this. I just cry when I see how our know-how goes to Malaysia / China / Russia / etc. without batting an eyelid. will be carried. The term “engineer” used to stand for products that not every Fuzzi can simply copy. “In the past,” for example, Americans licked their fingers after reading German Grundig data sheets because they were the only ones. Today I HAVE to read English data sheets here in Germany. Strange isn't it?

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello Mr. Helchheim,
       thank you for your experience report - and for carefully reading my past posts ;-)
       Certainly consumers' buying behavior also plays a role: I believe, however, that consumers are not only cheap to buy at any price but also willing to pay a little more if quality and / or service are right. Exactly with customer service and innovative ability lack however mE with German companies. A compulsory obligation to buy only German products would be the wrong way and would not work.
       gruß
       Simone Janson

       Reply
33. Karen

    Hallo,

    here are a few links that can help you decide on emigration:

    Regards

    Karen

    Reply
34. Karen

    Hallo,

    here are a few links that can help you decide on emigration:

    Regards

    Karen

    Reply
35. Marcus M

    The statement by Karen regarding the promotion of employees can also be transferred to Switzerland. Here, too, I feel in Switzerland that Swiss companies are more willing to invest money in the form of continuing education than in some German companies. Also, the age structure in the department in which I work ranges from the apprentice to employees retiring in 1 - 2 years.

    MFG
    Marcus

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello Marcus,
       Thank you, that is a very interesting aspect.

       Reply
36. Marcus M

    The statement by Karen regarding the promotion of employees can also be transferred to Switzerland. Here, too, I feel in Switzerland that Swiss companies are more willing to invest money in the form of continuing education than in some German companies. Also, the age structure in the department in which I work ranges from the apprentice to employees retiring in 1 - 2 years.

    MFG
    Marcus

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello Marcus,
       Thank you, that is a very interesting aspect.

       Reply
37. Simone Janson

    Yes, but you had found something surprisingly fast. Another member of the discussion, too.
    So the short-sightedness of German companies?
    gruß
    Simone Janson

    Reply
38. Simone Janson

    Yes, but you had found something surprisingly fast. Another member of the discussion, too.
    So the short-sightedness of German companies?
    gruß
    Simone Janson

    Reply
39. Karen

    Hallo,

    not everyone who applies abroad will get a job immediately. It is only the case that everyone who goes out of Deuttschland has a place. You can only leave Germany if you have a job in the new country. Everything else would be an incalculable risk. However, it is so that one still gets a job abroad, because the companies, especially in Scandinavia, invest in the training and further education and thus also get a chance for graduates.

    Regards

    Karen

    Reply
40. Karen

    Hallo,

    not everyone who applies abroad will get a job immediately. It is only the case that everyone who goes out of Deuttschland has a place. You can only leave Germany if you have a job in the new country. Everything else would be an incalculable risk. However, it is so that one still gets a job abroad, because the companies, especially in Scandinavia, invest in the training and further education and thus also get a chance for graduates.

    Regards

    Karen

    Reply
41. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    An interesting aspect would perhaps be a comparison with other countries: Why do some people find a job there almost immediately, as has been described here - and not in Germany?

    Reply
42. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    An interesting aspect would perhaps be a comparison with other countries: Why do some people find a job there almost immediately, as has been described here - and not in Germany?

    Reply
43. Simone Janson

    @habichthorn @alexbonde @StefanKaufmann Is there really a shortage of skilled workers? Discussion with those affected

    Reply
44. Simone Janson

    @habichthorn @alexbonde @StefanKaufmann Is there really a shortage of skilled workers? Discussion with those affected

    Reply
45. Monika

    Hallo,

    I would like to commission a study on the topic of engineering deficiencies, and I would like to summarize the most important questions.
    Here is my previous collection with the request for further suggestions and additions. Thank you!
    • What is the share of engineers who regularly end their working hours?
    • How many engineers are unemployed? How are you qualified? What about your mobility? What is the age structure?
    • What are the main reasons for unemployment among engineers?
    • For what reasons do engineers leave the profession before reaching regular retirement age?
    • What is the share of engineers in secured employment and temporary employment?
    • What is the percentage of engineers employed by temporary employment agencies or by engineering service providers?
    • What is the share of engineers in precarious positions? What are the reasons for this?
    • What are the average salaries of engineers?

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Dear Monika,
       I think this is a great idea. A corresponding study would also help me to make the topic public in the media. Perhaps one or the other still has a constructive suggestion.

       Reply
46. Monika

    Hallo,

    I would like to commission a study on the topic of engineering deficiencies, and I would like to summarize the most important questions.
    Here is my previous collection with the request for further suggestions and additions. Thank you!
    • What is the share of engineers who regularly end their working hours?
    • How many engineers are unemployed? How are you qualified? What about your mobility? What is the age structure?
    • What are the main reasons for unemployment among engineers?
    • For what reasons do engineers leave the profession before reaching regular retirement age?
    • What is the share of engineers in secured employment and temporary employment?
    • What is the percentage of engineers employed by temporary employment agencies or by engineering service providers?
    • What is the share of engineers in precarious positions? What are the reasons for this?
    • What are the average salaries of engineers?

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Dear Monika,
       I think this is a great idea. A corresponding study would also help me to make the topic public in the media. Perhaps one or the other still has a constructive suggestion.

       Reply
47. Simone Janson

    Hello Leila, thanks for your comment and your experiences. This brings a whole new aspect to the topic.
    Wouldn't you like to give me an interview on the subject of “Applying with a migration background”? Talk about your experiences. I think that would be a very exciting topic and the shortage of skilled workers could also be dealt with in this way.
    If you are interested, just send an email to Redaktion @berufebilder.de.

    Simone Janson

    Reply
48. Simone Janson

    Hello Leila, thanks for your comment and your experiences. This brings a whole new aspect to the topic.
    Wouldn't you like to give me an interview on the subject of “Applying with a migration background”? Talk about your experiences. I think that would be a very exciting topic and the shortage of skilled workers could also be dealt with in this way.
    If you are interested, just send an email to Redaktion @berufebilder.de.

    Simone Janson

    Reply
49. Leila

    Hallo,

    I have read with interest the contributions that already go from March to today. Let me tell you my story and my experiences, even if all these stories are individual fates and you can not conclude on the general public. I have successfully completed my electrical engineering studies with a very good grade, have completed internships at major companies, speak 2006 languages, including English and Spanish fluently. Then I started my PhD Dr.Ing. at the university and will finish this soon. Well so far so good. It should also be mentioned that I am not 30 years old, but a woman with a migration background (this word should be the unwarrel of the year) live but since 25 years in Germany. I do not earn a lot at the university, especially in the field of e-technology we are funded by third-party funds, so I have access to the 2000 Euro NETTO every month. Unfortunately, I can not stay at the university forever and will have to look for something new after my dissertation. So I sent numerous applications to the industry, with the result that I only received cancellations. I am not even tied up and would move too. Lack of flexibility can not be accused me here.
    Well, but I do not find it appropriate to fall into complete despair. The fact is that you have to be lucky and to be in the right place at the right time. I hope so.

    Reply
50. Leila

    Hallo,

    I have read with interest the contributions that already go from March to today. Let me tell you my story and my experiences, even if all these stories are individual fates and you can not conclude on the general public. I have successfully completed my electrical engineering studies with a very good grade, have completed internships at major companies, speak 2006 languages, including English and Spanish fluently. Then I started my PhD Dr.Ing. at the university and will finish this soon. Well so far so good. It should also be mentioned that I am not 30 years old, but a woman with a migration background (this word should be the unwarrel of the year) live but since 25 years in Germany. I do not earn a lot at the university, especially in the field of e-technology we are funded by third-party funds, so I have access to the 2000 Euro NETTO every month. Unfortunately, I can not stay at the university forever and will have to look for something new after my dissertation. So I sent numerous applications to the industry, with the result that I only received cancellations. I am not even tied up and would move too. Lack of flexibility can not be accused me here.
    Well, but I do not find it appropriate to fall into complete despair. The fact is that you have to be lucky and to be in the right place at the right time. I hope so.

    Reply
51. Simone Janson

    Hello computer scientist,
    Thank you for this really honest and, in part, self-critical report. Your statement probably relates to a problem that many, especially smaller companies have - and that I have as a self-employed: Fluctuating order situation, no time to train employees with a simultaneous lack of qualified people.
    Since in Germany the likes of the short-sightedness of the companies is threshed, which is partly justified. However, the entire economy is also moving in such a way that a long-term planning, as it was formerly used, is no longer possible.
    I can sympathize with the attitude of their company as well, albeit small, self-employed. Nobody thinks that's good, but complaining does not help.
    I also see that potential workers are increasingly demanding to continue to qualify themselves and not to rely on the company to train them.

    Incidentally, that would be really an interesting article, even for a larger medium, to compare the attitude of companies and applicants - this could also be done anonymously, because probably nobody will express their name so openly on this topic.

    Reply
52. Simone Janson

    Hello computer scientist,
    Thank you for this really honest and, in part, self-critical report. Your statement probably relates to a problem that many, especially smaller companies have - and that I have as a self-employed: Fluctuating order situation, no time to train employees with a simultaneous lack of qualified people.
    Since in Germany the likes of the short-sightedness of the companies is threshed, which is partly justified. However, the entire economy is also moving in such a way that a long-term planning, as it was formerly used, is no longer possible.
    I can sympathize with the attitude of their company as well, albeit small, self-employed. Nobody thinks that's good, but complaining does not help.
    I also see that potential workers are increasingly demanding to continue to qualify themselves and not to rely on the company to train them.

    Incidentally, that would be really an interesting article, even for a larger medium, to compare the attitude of companies and applicants - this could also be done anonymously, because probably nobody will express their name so openly on this topic.

    Reply
53. YOUNECT GmbH

    RT @SimoneJanson: #Insider report This is how it really works in companies - interesting contribution to the discussion on the # shortage of skilled workers

    Reply
54. YOUNECT GmbH

    RT @SimoneJanson: #Insider report This is how it really works in companies - interesting contribution to the discussion on the # shortage of skilled workers

    Reply
55. Simone Janson

    #Insider report This is how it really works in companies - interesting contribution to the discussion on the # skills shortage

    Reply
56. Simone Janson

    #Insider report This is how it really works in companies - interesting contribution to the discussion on the # skills shortage

    Reply
57. computer scientist

    Hallo,

    I am computer scientist, 40 years old and work as a software developer.

    We are looking for software developers in our company in the Rhine-Main area. But most of our applicants are also rejected.

    Applicants must have a practice experience in the programming languages ​​and operating systems we use and speak English very well. You should also have knowledge of the exchange environment.

    We are so under pressure that we can hardly get new people to work in and it is therefore not possible to hire beginners. However, we definitely set people through 50.

    I take part in job interviews and often it hangs also in the interpersonal communication. Some people we just can not imagine in our teams.

    If it turns out that a new employee does not bring the service, he will be dismissed without further ado.

    On the subject of quality of life, I can also say that with us is not a happy one who does the job just because of the money. Anyone who is not enthusiastic about software development will be very unhappy. The recognition of the performance often leaves something to be desired. You have to live with it.
    Management's complete requirements and deadlines are also met.

    I know some developers who have been able to inspire their job for a while and now want to do something different.

    With us, the developers usually earn very well. Top people get> 100K gross.

    I can understand the frustration of the applicants who do not find a job and now read in the newspaper of a professional jury. The companies (also ours) have failed to train people for years.

    Reply
58. computer scientist

    Hallo,

    I am computer scientist, 40 years old and work as a software developer.

    We are looking for software developers in our company in the Rhine-Main area. But most of our applicants are also rejected.

    Applicants must have a practice experience in the programming languages ​​and operating systems we use and speak English very well. You should also have knowledge of the exchange environment.

    We are so under pressure that we can hardly get new people to work in and it is therefore not possible to hire beginners. However, we definitely set people through 50.

    I take part in job interviews and often it hangs also in the interpersonal communication. Some people we just can not imagine in our teams.

    If it turns out that a new employee does not bring the service, he will be dismissed without further ado.

    On the subject of quality of life, I can also say that with us is not a happy one who does the job just because of the money. Anyone who is not enthusiastic about software development will be very unhappy. The recognition of the performance often leaves something to be desired. You have to live with it.
    Management's complete requirements and deadlines are also met.

    I know some developers who have been able to inspire their job for a while and now want to do something different.

    With us, the developers usually earn very well. Top people get> 100K gross.

    I can understand the frustration of the applicants who do not find a job and now read in the newspaper of a professional jury. The companies (also ours) have failed to train people for years.

    Reply
59. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    Thanks for the hints, that sounds very useful.
    But I also always need a specific contact person / interview partner, because the facts can be better conveyed, if one speaks directly also with those concerned. People are more interested in people. The article would then simply seem more authentic, at least my editors see this way.

    gruß
    Simone

    By the way: Here for a change a nice story about a young Japanese engineer:
    

    Reply
60. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    Thanks for the hints, that sounds very useful.
    But I also always need a specific contact person / interview partner, because the facts can be better conveyed, if one speaks directly also with those concerned. People are more interested in people. The article would then simply seem more authentic, at least my editors see this way.

    gruß
    Simone

    By the way: Here for a change a nice story about a young Japanese engineer:
    

    Reply
61. damaged

    Fortunately, I am not a victim, but only noticed the methods in my application phase - and unfortunately now I see them from the “inside”.

    To the question whether the enterprise is representative: in my private environment such jobs are represented over-proportionally. Despite above-average degrees.

    So what is the truth and how can we determine it? My tip would be:
    - Consider partial retirement of engineers (should be possible at the employment office). The premise: these people generally do NOT leave voluntarily but are deported.
    - Look at the rise and status of engineering temporary work and engineering service providers. Premise: there is wage dumping, or these jobs are obviously no longer available in companies and are important, ergo there is no lasting shortage.
    - Finally find the true source of engineering deficiency reports. Alternatively, find companies that are looking for REALLY unsuccessful engineers and analyze why. How do I find an interesting topic.

    Reply
62. damaged

    Fortunately, I am not a victim, but only noticed the methods in my application phase - and unfortunately now I see them from the “inside”.

    To the question whether the enterprise is representative: in my private environment such jobs are represented over-proportionally. Despite above-average degrees.

    So what is the truth and how can we determine it? My tip would be:
    - Consider partial retirement of engineers (should be possible at the employment office). The premise: these people generally do NOT leave voluntarily but are deported.
    - Look at the rise and status of engineering temporary work and engineering service providers. Premise: there is wage dumping, or these jobs are obviously no longer available in companies and are important, ergo there is no lasting shortage.
    - Finally find the true source of engineering deficiency reports. Alternatively, find companies that are looking for REALLY unsuccessful engineers and analyze why. How do I find an interesting topic.

    Reply
63. Simone Janson

    And here is a beautiful article exactly matching the subject:

    Reply
64. Simone Janson

    And here is a beautiful article exactly matching the subject:

    Reply
65. Simone Janson

    Are 2500 € gross as #Einstiegsgehalt for #Ingenieure in Frankfurt / Main too much? Discussed with:

    Reply
66. Simone Janson

    Are 2500 € gross as #Einstiegsgehalt for #Ingenieure in Frankfurt / Main too much? Discussed with:

    Reply
67. KEAL

    RT @SimoneJanson: Are 2500 € gross as #Incentage for #Ingenie too much? Discussed, I would look forward to more facts:

    Reply
68. KEAL

    RT @SimoneJanson: Are 2500 € gross as #Incentage for #Ingenie too much? Discussed, I would look forward to more facts:

    Reply
69. Simone Janson

    Are 2500 € gross as #Incentage for #Ingenie too much? Discussed, I would look forward to more facts:

    Reply
70. Simone Janson

    Are 2500 € gross as #Incentage for #Ingenie too much? Discussed, I would look forward to more facts:

    Reply
71. damaged

    Yes Sorry, had posted this review before I saw her new article!

    If an engineer could ask for € 2500 net today, I wouldn't write angry posts. The average GOOD starting salaries - according to IGM / ERA - are now ERA EG 12 -> ~ 3500 gross. Mind you, a top salary for a university graduate (although we often make no difference to a university of applied sciences degree, according to ERA it only depends on the job description). That's not a bad salary, but it doesn't attract anyone to study engineering either. Companies also like to fall short of these salaries through temporary work and service providers.

    Hmm, if the 50+ year olds (mind you SO they have a job) are not doing well, who is? Unfortunately - as already mentioned elsewhere - I see how they are pushed into retirement. Often a good 7 years ahead of “the time”. That means 7 years - x state subsidies for pension contributions and income are lost - the engineer quickly becomes a lower class worker in terms of salary.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello victim,
       In fact, € 2500 is not much - I know mathematicians who get more at universities. However, I am still not entirely convinced whether a company is really representative in this regard.
       In any case, I would really like to take up the topic for a larger medium - but the basic problem remains that I need someone who reports on his experiences under his real name.
       So I can only shortly times the facts of this discussion in a blog together.
       Simone Janson

       Reply
72. damaged

    Yes Sorry, had posted this review before I saw her new article!

    If an engineer could ask for € 2500 net today, I wouldn't write angry posts. The average GOOD starting salaries - according to IGM / ERA - are now ERA EG 12 -> ~ 3500 gross. Mind you, a top salary for a university graduate (although we often make no difference to a university of applied sciences degree, according to ERA it only depends on the job description). That's not a bad salary, but it doesn't attract anyone to study engineering either. Companies also like to fall short of these salaries through temporary work and service providers.

    Hmm, if the 50+ year olds (mind you SO they have a job) are not doing well, who is? Unfortunately - as already mentioned elsewhere - I see how they are pushed into retirement. Often a good 7 years ahead of “the time”. That means 7 years - x state subsidies for pension contributions and income are lost - the engineer quickly becomes a lower class worker in terms of salary.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello victim,
       In fact, € 2500 is not much - I know mathematicians who get more at universities. However, I am still not entirely convinced whether a company is really representative in this regard.
       In any case, I would really like to take up the topic for a larger medium - but the basic problem remains that I need someone who reports on his experiences under his real name.
       So I can only shortly times the facts of this discussion in a blog together.
       Simone Janson

       Reply
73. damaged

    @Simone
    And your facts? Only the IW and the usual suspect companies see the STEM deficiency. The numbers of temporary work and engineering service jobs with engineers? The REAL average salary of an engineer, companies that write rejections like: “Due to your salary requirement that we cannot meet” - the demand was exactly 2500 € / month, Frankfurt companies> 2500 employees. Companies that sell their actual REMOVAL to employees as “we are hiring: 3 engineers” in the usual news vehicles? Please analyze the current complaints from Siemens, BMW and the aviation industry with specialist knowledge about replacement needs.

    According to the OECD, it looks like this in other countries: for every 100 engineers who “go”, 190 enter the labor market. What should be positive about that? And in Germany - boohoo - there are only 90. In return, Germany is changing from an industrial to a service nation (Destatis, people employed in the manufacturing industry in 1970: 46,5%, today: 25,5%, falling). Rest in services largely WITHOUT engineering / technical areas, finance, trade, etc.

    If the engineers have a golden future (they supposedly have had it for decades, so it has to be ready soon, “can already be foreseen”), that's fine with me. I hope you are right!

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Thank you for your detailed contributions here and.
       What I find really interesting about your posting is the naming of an exact salary amount - 2.500 euros gross or net? Would be important for the correct classification. Incidentally, these are not my facts, but those of the Stifterverband für die Deutsche Wissenschaft. How this could come about has already been discussed several times above. The situation of engineers 50+ has already been mentioned - according to other commentators, they are not doing well either.
       gruß
       Simone Janson

       Reply
74. damaged

    @Simone
    And your facts? Only the IW and the usual suspect companies see the STEM deficiency. The numbers of temporary work and engineering service jobs with engineers? The REAL average salary of an engineer, companies that write rejections like: “Due to your salary requirement that we cannot meet” - the demand was exactly 2500 € / month, Frankfurt companies> 2500 employees. Companies that sell their actual REMOVAL to employees as “we are hiring: 3 engineers” in the usual news vehicles? Please analyze the current complaints from Siemens, BMW and the aviation industry with specialist knowledge about replacement needs.

    According to the OECD, it looks like this in other countries: for every 100 engineers who “go”, 190 enter the labor market. What should be positive about that? And in Germany - boohoo - there are only 90. In return, Germany is changing from an industrial to a service nation (Destatis, people employed in the manufacturing industry in 1970: 46,5%, today: 25,5%, falling). Rest in services largely WITHOUT engineering / technical areas, finance, trade, etc.

    If the engineers have a golden future (they supposedly have had it for decades, so it has to be ready soon, “can already be foreseen”), that's fine with me. I hope you are right!

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Thank you for your detailed contributions here and.
       What I find really interesting about your posting is the naming of an exact salary amount - 2.500 euros gross or net? Would be important for the correct classification. Incidentally, these are not my facts, but those of the Stifterverband für die Deutsche Wissenschaft. How this could come about has already been discussed several times above. The situation of engineers 50+ has already been mentioned - according to other commentators, they are not doing well either.
       gruß
       Simone Janson

       Reply
75. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    Thank you for your contributions, which I find very entertaining thanks to your polemics and irony. But that doesn't hide the fact that you are only presenting your personal perspective without well-founded facts.
    gruß
    Simone Janson

    Reply
76. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    Thank you for your contributions, which I find very entertaining thanks to your polemics and irony. But that doesn't hide the fact that you are only presenting your personal perspective without well-founded facts.
    gruß
    Simone Janson

    Reply
77. damaged

    @Karen
    Of course not. It is better to work as an engineer in temporary employment, for 2500 €. Today Hamburg, tomorrow Lake Constance. The main thing is to solder the right wires. If you don't need a life, no family, no happiness, no money, no prosperity and no perspective, you will become an engineer. There are other professions for everyone else. Satisfaction without money and security does not exist either or only in the humanities ...

    And just by the way, in the past an engineer was simply paid for and used. Why not both? Why lure young people to work or even lie to study?

    Reply
78. damaged

    @Karen
    Of course not. It is better to work as an engineer in temporary employment, for 2500 €. Today Hamburg, tomorrow Lake Constance. The main thing is to solder the right wires. If you don't need a life, no family, no happiness, no money, no prosperity and no perspective, you will become an engineer. There are other professions for everyone else. Satisfaction without money and security does not exist either or only in the humanities ...

    And just by the way, in the past an engineer was simply paid for and used. Why not both? Why lure young people to work or even lie to study?

    Reply
79. Karen

    @ Injured:

    You can not make your life dependent on money. To work his whole life in a profession that is not necessarily fulfilling and which has only been chosen because of "high" earnings prospects is also not a solution. One should seize the profession that lies with one and then possibly also seize opportunities in another country. Satisfaction you can not buy.

    Reply
80. Karen

    @ Injured:

    You can not make your life dependent on money. To work his whole life in a profession that is not necessarily fulfilling and which has only been chosen because of "high" earnings prospects is also not a solution. One should seize the profession that lies with one and then possibly also seize opportunities in another country. Satisfaction you can not buy.

    Reply
81. damaged

    So please! There is NO engineering deficiency. The demographic change will be eaten by the outsourcing of jobs abroad. Time work is the future of the remaining engineers. If any future still exists. At the same time, the engineers should work the first 5 years without payment. And from 50 please immediately go voluntarily. I have never seen an engineer retire regularly. And the part-time of the old days did not take my ex-colleagues voluntarily because they were so well cared for - but because it was very close to them ... alone who 5 years "too early" must go times should count how much the engineering profession against the banker's job. In fact, not only was the "fun" to spend the rest of his life on glowing coals to get the hardest job and to get NO praise, recognition, etc. - except for colleagues, who also know that the MINTler is oh so important in the world ,

    Incidentally, my polemic is as good as that of the interest groups, industrial lobby and the haphazard policy. If I again the phrase "is today already foreseeable that a shortage of skilled workers will threaten" I will puke.

    People, make you a beautiful life (or have a life at all) and study what is g'scheites, but not MINT. Chinese and Indian are already doing this for us (O-tone of a high manager of an international group).

    Reply
82. damaged

    So please! There is NO engineering deficiency. The demographic change will be eaten by the outsourcing of jobs abroad. Time work is the future of the remaining engineers. If any future still exists. At the same time, the engineers should work the first 5 years without payment. And from 50 please immediately go voluntarily. I have never seen an engineer retire regularly. And the part-time of the old days did not take my ex-colleagues voluntarily because they were so well cared for - but because it was very close to them ... alone who 5 years "too early" must go times should count how much the engineering profession against the banker's job. In fact, not only was the "fun" to spend the rest of his life on glowing coals to get the hardest job and to get NO praise, recognition, etc. - except for colleagues, who also know that the MINTler is oh so important in the world ,

    Incidentally, my polemic is as good as that of the interest groups, industrial lobby and the haphazard policy. If I again the phrase "is today already foreseeable that a shortage of skilled workers will threaten" I will puke.

    People, make you a beautiful life (or have a life at all) and study what is g'scheites, but not MINT. Chinese and Indian are already doing this for us (O-tone of a high manager of an international group).

    Reply
83. Karen

    Hello Simone,

    In fact, I would like to forget the time of doubt and humiliation. In the short time in Sweden, I have received a lot of support, both from colleagues and from the company. In Germany, I was seen more as an intruder and as a threat to the position, assistance in the training was granted only conditionally. The colleagues were afraid for their own position and information was passed on only very limited. Although I am in Stockholm for a short time and it is certainly not paradise, but the support and respect that I have experienced here so far was missing in Germany. I feel good here, already after this short time.
    PS: I am reachable under the mail address.
    Regards

    Karen

    Reply
84. Karen

    Hello Simone,

    In fact, I would like to forget the time of doubt and humiliation. In the short time in Sweden, I have received a lot of support, both from colleagues and from the company. In Germany, I was seen more as an intruder and as a threat to the position, assistance in the training was granted only conditionally. The colleagues were afraid for their own position and information was passed on only very limited. Although I am in Stockholm for a short time and it is certainly not paradise, but the support and respect that I have experienced here so far was missing in Germany. I feel good here, already after this short time.
    PS: I am reachable under the mail address.
    Regards

    Karen

    Reply
85. Karen

    Hello Simone,

    many greetings from the cold Stockholm. There is a fairly large community of German engineers who support each other. With their help I have had a good start.
    Best regards and Happy Easter
    Karen

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello Karen, I'm glad. As a consolation: Here it is also cold :-)
       One question: If necessary, would you be available for an interview if you wanted to do something about the topic (via e-mail or Skype)? And can I reach you at the given e-mail address?

       I also talked yesterday with a colleague at a larger newspaper, which also found the topic quite interesting. We are just busy with other things, so it can take a while.
       Greeting Simone Janson
       Simone Janson

       Reply
86. Karen

    Hello Simone,

    many greetings from the cold Stockholm. There is a fairly large community of German engineers who support each other. With their help I have had a good start.
    Best regards and Happy Easter
    Karen

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       Hello Karen, I'm glad. As a consolation: Here it is also cold :-)
       One question: If necessary, would you be available for an interview if you wanted to do something about the topic (via e-mail or Skype)? And can I reach you at the given e-mail address?

       I also talked yesterday with a colleague at a larger newspaper, which also found the topic quite interesting. We are just busy with other things, so it can take a while.
       Greeting Simone Janson
       Simone Janson

       Reply
87. Simone Janson

    Hello Christopher,
    A book on what topic, security and defense? I know about 0 - but I'm happy to give tips if you want to write a book.
    On the other hand, there are many books and websites on modern forms of work. As already mentioned, one can see this development negatively, but one can also recognize the new opportunities that lie in it.
    Greeting and happy Easter
    Simone

    Reply
88. Simone Janson

    Hello Christopher,
    A book on what topic, security and defense? I know about 0 - but I'm happy to give tips if you want to write a book.
    On the other hand, there are many books and websites on modern forms of work. As already mentioned, one can see this development negatively, but one can also recognize the new opportunities that lie in it.
    Greeting and happy Easter
    Simone

    Reply
89. Christoph

    Hello Simone,

    “@Christoph: Thanks for the video - it is now directly on the start page. Otherwise: Wow, thanks for the detailed industry information. In which area are you active? "

    I am glad that it impressed you:
    I am not working in the security and defense field. But since the latest technologies are used here, I watch the developments very closely for interest.
    My links were more than an answer to Monika's proposal to promote me in this area. I think it does not hurt to clarify what happens in the area. With a book on this subject you can certainly start a social debate.
    I recently visited a Fraunhofer Institute. There a criminal was tracked with the help of a quadrocopter. The chase was shown from the perspective of the camera in the quadrocopter. I must confess that I involuntarily had a rather queasy feeling in the hunt for a man's hunt (the criminal was, of course, an extra). However, these devices are also intended for border protection and are used to monitor demonstrations so that the scenario may not be too far from reality.
    A fairly well-founded article on the subject can be found in the current “ct” No. 8 of March 29.3.2010, 82 on page XNUMX. So if you want to do a little research, go ahead.
    By the way, for reasons of conscience it is forbidden for me to work in this area of ​​“skilled labor shortage”.
    Otherwise: Did you last the article about the changes in the world of work Spiegel (the one with the "Modern Times cover by Charlie Chaplin") read? It describes how almost all occupational groups are affected by unsecured employment. That could maybe also help you for your research.

    Reply
90. Christoph

    Hello Simone,

    “@Christoph: Thanks for the video - it is now directly on the start page. Otherwise: Wow, thanks for the detailed industry information. In which area are you active? "

    I am glad that it impressed you:
    I am not working in the security and defense field. But since the latest technologies are used here, I watch the developments very closely for interest.
    My links were more than an answer to Monika's proposal to promote me in this area. I think it does not hurt to clarify what happens in the area. With a book on this subject you can certainly start a social debate.
    I recently visited a Fraunhofer Institute. There a criminal was tracked with the help of a quadrocopter. The chase was shown from the perspective of the camera in the quadrocopter. I must confess that I involuntarily had a rather queasy feeling in the hunt for a man's hunt (the criminal was, of course, an extra). However, these devices are also intended for border protection and are used to monitor demonstrations so that the scenario may not be too far from reality.
    A fairly well-founded article on the subject can be found in the current “ct” No. 8 of March 29.3.2010, 82 on page XNUMX. So if you want to do a little research, go ahead.
    By the way, for reasons of conscience it is forbidden for me to work in this area of ​​“skilled labor shortage”.
    Otherwise: Did you last the article about the changes in the world of work Spiegel (the one with the "Modern Times cover by Charlie Chaplin") read? It describes how almost all occupational groups are affected by unsecured employment. That could maybe also help you for your research.

    Reply
91. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    and who can make a contact with the BMBF or make people aware of it? I'm honestly surprised that someone from the Bavarian Ministry of Economics is interested in a blog.

    Regarding the colored reports, I have to say: Unfortunately, the media do not always like to report objectively. To headline “Emigration - Germany is bleeding out” (only as an example) sells better than saying “There is a certain tendency for skilled workers to emigrate abroad”. The slogan “Help, shortage of skilled workers” is also more catchy and leads to more reactions than saying: “If we continue like this, we might be missing a few people in 5 years”. Can you get annoyed about it, unfortunately that is the case. It's all about attracting attention.

    Reply
92. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    and who can make a contact with the BMBF or make people aware of it? I'm honestly surprised that someone from the Bavarian Ministry of Economics is interested in a blog.

    Regarding the colored reports, I have to say: Unfortunately, the media do not always like to report objectively. To headline “Emigration - Germany is bleeding out” (only as an example) sells better than saying “There is a certain tendency for skilled workers to emigrate abroad”. The slogan “Help, shortage of skilled workers” is also more catchy and leads to more reactions than saying: “If we continue like this, we might be missing a few people in 5 years”. Can you get annoyed about it, unfortunately that is the case. It's all about attracting attention.

    Reply
93. Christoph

    @Simone:

    There are two views: the employer and the workers. If the media is talked about by experts, probably more young people would like to study a MINT profession in the expectation of a good merit and a safe place.

    It is already clear that the statements of the media are often formulated a bit “travel-oriented”, but there is not only the Bildzeitung but also “Die Zeit”.
    Leather is also an increasing tendency in politics and the media to talk more beautifully than it is. I like to compare this with the quantity units for a coke at McDonalds: there are only big, bigger and bigger. A small Coke is no more (at least not the name). It's an erosion of language, and the one who changes the terminology first is the winner. But only until you realize that today's cola is the little coke of yesteryear.
    And so it comes with the opinion of the citizens about the meaningfulness of the policy: once everyone has understood that everything is just talked beautifully, the trust goes massively into the cellar.

    So it may be for a MINT student who has been full of expectations about his future and then is disappointed by the reality and the promises.

    Reply
94. Christoph

    @Simone:

    There are two views: the employer and the workers. If the media is talked about by experts, probably more young people would like to study a MINT profession in the expectation of a good merit and a safe place.

    It is already clear that the statements of the media are often formulated a bit “travel-oriented”, but there is not only the Bildzeitung but also “Die Zeit”.
    Leather is also an increasing tendency in politics and the media to talk more beautifully than it is. I like to compare this with the quantity units for a coke at McDonalds: there are only big, bigger and bigger. A small Coke is no more (at least not the name). It's an erosion of language, and the one who changes the terminology first is the winner. But only until you realize that today's cola is the little coke of yesteryear.
    And so it comes with the opinion of the citizens about the meaningfulness of the policy: once everyone has understood that everything is just talked beautifully, the trust goes massively into the cellar.

    So it may be for a MINT student who has been full of expectations about his future and then is disappointed by the reality and the promises.

    Reply
95. Monika

    Hello Simone,

    In principle, anyone can turn to the BMBF and give suggestions, but in order to really attract attention or to set something in motion, other means are required; For example, one could successfully interest a member of parliament for the topic; Experience has shown that letters from a member of parliament have more weight than when someone writes ... one could organize a congress with a panel discussion and invite responsible ministers etc. to it. You have to think very carefully about who to involve and when, otherwise you will find yourself between the political fronts and that will damage the success of the project. When it becomes clear in the discussions that the supposed shortage of skilled workers is apparently only one side of the coin, the step of commissioning a study is already half won.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       @Christoph - nice comparison with the cola ...
       @ Monika: With which we would be back in the beginning: to organize a congress, to invite the right people, etc. costs money, requires good contacts, etc. Apart from the fact that one could take up the topic in the media in part, the concerned concerned probably nothing else to be founded as an association of interests which develops a little more punch than the individual.

       Reply
96. Monika

    Hello Simone,

    In principle, anyone can turn to the BMBF and give suggestions, but in order to really attract attention or to set something in motion, other means are required; For example, one could successfully interest a member of parliament for the topic; Experience has shown that letters from a member of parliament have more weight than when someone writes ... one could organize a congress with a panel discussion and invite responsible ministers etc. to it. You have to think very carefully about who to involve and when, otherwise you will find yourself between the political fronts and that will damage the success of the project. When it becomes clear in the discussions that the supposed shortage of skilled workers is apparently only one side of the coin, the step of commissioning a study is already half won.

    Reply
    1. Simone Janson

       @Christoph - nice comparison with the cola ...
       @ Monika: With which we would be back in the beginning: to organize a congress, to invite the right people, etc. costs money, requires good contacts, etc. Apart from the fact that one could take up the topic in the media in part, the concerned concerned probably nothing else to be founded as an association of interests which develops a little more punch than the individual.

       Reply
97. Monika

    @Simone: Regarding the question of who could commission a study: I ​​think a good client would be the Federal Ministry of Education, this would ensure that a survey or research would not only relate to one state (which would be the case if a Bavarian Ministry had a such study awards). In 2001, for example, the BMBF commissioned a very extensive study on the subject of emigration. The results of the study were scientific, the interpretation later in the media was “colored”. I think a serious company does not allow the results to be dictated by the client….

    Reply
98. Monika

    @Simone: Regarding the question of who could commission a study: I ​​think a good client would be the Federal Ministry of Education, this would ensure that a survey or research would not only relate to one state (which would be the case if a Bavarian Ministry had a such study awards). In 2001, for example, the BMBF commissioned a very extensive study on the subject of emigration. The results of the study were scientific, the interpretation later in the media was “colored”. I think a serious company does not allow the results to be dictated by the client….

    Reply
99. Christoph

    "We must not forget that Karen has already drawn our attention to a more pro-employee study"

    and the result speaks quite clearly for a professional armed forces:

    “That does not automatically mean a shortage of specialists and managers. On the contrary, the number of demanding full-time positions that the highly qualified are expected to occupy more in the future is paradoxically declining across industries. Furthermore, the overall German unemployment figures are not falling significantly and are in reality probably much higher than officially reported. There are not a few voices behind closed doors who consider the aforementioned deficiency in the ICT industry to be a myth and an attempt at manipulation. "

    Reply
100. Christoph

     "We must not forget that Karen has already drawn our attention to a more pro-employee study"

     and the result speaks quite clearly for a professional armed forces:

     “That does not automatically mean a shortage of specialists and managers. On the contrary, the number of demanding full-time positions that the highly qualified are expected to occupy more in the future is paradoxically declining across industries. Furthermore, the overall German unemployment figures are not falling significantly and are in reality probably much higher than officially reported. There are not a few voices behind closed doors who consider the aforementioned deficiency in the ICT industry to be a myth and an attempt at manipulation. "

     Reply
101. Simone Janson

     Apart from the fact that the Internet is increasingly recognized as a place of publication in academic circles), professional publishing would be the least problem. You could, for example, get in touch with the authors and consider how to build on them.

     Nevertheless, you see, there are connecting points and numbers that are somewhat less tendentious.

     Reply
102. Simone Janson

     Apart from the fact that the Internet is increasingly recognized as a place of publication in academic circles), professional publishing would be the least problem. You could, for example, get in touch with the authors and consider how to build on them.

     Nevertheless, you see, there are connecting points and numbers that are somewhat less tendentious.

     Reply
103. Mark Brandis

     Certainly, this has, of course, been written by business informatics students and has not really been published professionally, if I am not mistaken?

     Reply
104. Mark Brandis

     Certainly, this has, of course, been written by business informatics students and has not really been published professionally, if I am not mistaken?

     Reply
105. Simone Janson

     Hallo,
     we must not forget that Karen has already drawn attention to a more pro-worker study:

     Reply
106. Simone Janson

     Hallo,
     we must not forget that Karen has already drawn attention to a more pro-worker study:

     Reply
107. Mark Brandis

     The problem with studies is that they always tend to reflect the opinion of the person who pays them. This is all right as long as one can filter out the truth about a certain situation from different studies of different lobbies.
     Unfortunately, the employees' side cannot commission a study on the subject of skills shortages - how could it? There is no organization that is explicitly committed to the interests of STEM graduates. So what one hears and reads 90% of the time in the media on the subject of skills shortages is the representation of the employer side. And thus only part of the truth, but by no means a complete representation of it.

     Reply
108. Mark Brandis

     The problem with studies is that they always tend to reflect the opinion of the person who pays them. This is all right as long as one can filter out the truth about a certain situation from different studies of different lobbies.
     Unfortunately, the employees' side cannot commission a study on the subject of skills shortages - how could it? There is no organization that is explicitly committed to the interests of STEM graduates. So what one hears and reads 90% of the time in the media on the subject of skills shortages is the representation of the employer side. And thus only part of the truth, but by no means a complete representation of it.

     Reply
109. Simone Janson

     Hi all,
     @ Sandra: Subsequently, congratulations on the job.
     @Christoph: Thanks for the video - it is now directly on the start page. Otherwise: Wow, thanks for the detailed industry information. In which area are you active? Maybe something like that would also be an issue ...
     As for the engineering service providers - nice euphemism. Actually, it is about contract or temporary work. As always, there are two opinions. Interesting the aspect with the pony ... my personal opinion is also, sorry, that maybe one or the other has to lower his demands a bit ...

     Have also recently written an article in which a person concerned also reported rather positive about the subject:
     And then I'm still stumbled upon a new release in which somebody's very posing planning (@Michael) is, in my experience, a matter of personal attitude. After almost 7 years of self-employment, one is accustomed to certain uncertainties. My personal experience.

     @Monika: Who can then commission such a study? I do not believe the unemployment statistics are reliable, because the unemployed are not included in further training and people in precarious employment. But in fact, I also believe that in many other disciplines, it is still badly auitively reported that you have to rethink: http://www.meconomy.me/startpage?sessionId=e9qrf2k9bnd4lrkj2mqpvgdrh3
     Nevertheless, this development should not be glossed over. However: The long-term perspective - I said earlier.

     Greeting and nice evening yet
     Simone

     Reply
110. Simone Janson

     Hi all,
     @ Sandra: Subsequently, congratulations on the job.
     @Christoph: Thanks for the video - it is now directly on the start page. Otherwise: Wow, thanks for the detailed industry information. In which area are you active? Maybe something like that would also be an issue ...
     As for the engineering service providers - nice euphemism. Actually, it is about contract or temporary work. As always, there are two opinions. Interesting the aspect with the pony ... my personal opinion is also, sorry, that maybe one or the other has to lower his demands a bit ...

     Have also recently written an article in which a person concerned also reported rather positive about the subject:
     And then I'm still stumbled upon a new release in which somebody's very posing planning (@Michael) is, in my experience, a matter of personal attitude. After almost 7 years of self-employment, one is accustomed to certain uncertainties. My personal experience.

     @Monika: Who can then commission such a study? I do not believe the unemployment statistics are reliable, because the unemployed are not included in further training and people in precarious employment. But in fact, I also believe that in many other disciplines, it is still badly auitively reported that you have to rethink: http://www.meconomy.me/startpage?sessionId=e9qrf2k9bnd4lrkj2mqpvgdrh3
     Nevertheless, this development should not be glossed over. However: The long-term perspective - I said earlier.

     Greeting and nice evening yet
     Simone

     Reply
111. Christoph

     @Monika
     "Christoph, Indra is active in the security sector (among other things, they make the software for missile interception systems and security systems for monitoring the coast and the detection of smuggler boats - these were at least some of the showcase projects in the exhibition."

     Ok, from this point of view, it is clearer why not every position can be found on the homepage.

     There are actually some vacancies in the area you mentioned. At the moment there is a kind of "technical revolution" in this area.
     Several areas of technology have developed rapidly over the last few years, so that new possibilities for safety engineering have developed and skilled personnel are needed here.

     I would like to briefly pick out a few important areas and show the resulting possibilities:
     1. Image processing (eg http://www.face-rec.org/general-info/)
     2. Robotics ()
     3. Control technology for flying objects ()

     For the border protection, South Korea builds on the combination of 1. u. 2. a border protection robot.

     A hobbyist in the US has made a rather impressive video, in which he shows that this technology can also be realized with commercially available means such as computer and webcam:
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBa5bQfTGc

     The company Foster and Miller developed robots for use in crisis areas (). However, it has been shown in Iraq that these are still unsuitable for practical use. On the other hand, unmanned flying objects (,) are much more successful,

     As Germany is the third largest export exporter in the world, I see great potential for specialists in Germany. Precisely because on the arms market the high-tech weapons a big future is predicted.

     Reply
112. Christoph

     @Monika
     "Christoph, Indra is active in the security sector (among other things, they make the software for missile interception systems and security systems for monitoring the coast and the detection of smuggler boats - these were at least some of the showcase projects in the exhibition."

     Ok, from this point of view, it is clearer why not every position can be found on the homepage.

     There are actually some vacancies in the area you mentioned. At the moment there is a kind of "technical revolution" in this area.
     Several areas of technology have developed rapidly over the last few years, so that new possibilities for safety engineering have developed and skilled personnel are needed here.

     I would like to briefly pick out a few important areas and show the resulting possibilities:
     1. Image processing (eg http://www.face-rec.org/general-info/)
     2. Robotics ()
     3. Control technology for flying objects ()

     For the border protection, South Korea builds on the combination of 1. u. 2. a border protection robot.

     A hobbyist in the US has made a rather impressive video, in which he shows that this technology can also be realized with commercially available means such as computer and webcam:
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBa5bQfTGc

     The company Foster and Miller developed robots for use in crisis areas (). However, it has been shown in Iraq that these are still unsuitable for practical use. On the other hand, unmanned flying objects (,) are much more successful,

     As Germany is the third largest export exporter in the world, I see great potential for specialists in Germany. Precisely because on the arms market the high-tech weapons a big future is predicted.

     Reply
113. Michael

     The film is very interesting and meets the situation exactly. I belong to a group of 4 engineers (TU, mechanical engineering and electrical engineering)), who have been working for a Bavarian automotive manufacturer since about 3 years. Unfortunately, the hoped-for takeover has not come true. The works contracts were regularly extended by a few months, shortly before expiration. A long-term planning is unfortunately not possible for any of us. In the case of a takeover, the group would probably have to pay considerably more (salaries are between EUR 2148, - 2978, - gross plur 1,80 EUR travel expenses per day). Each of us tried to change, but is currently difficult, especially with the testimony of a service provider.

     Reply
114. Michael

     The film is very interesting and meets the situation exactly. I belong to a group of 4 engineers (TU, mechanical engineering and electrical engineering)), who have been working for a Bavarian automotive manufacturer since about 3 years. Unfortunately, the hoped-for takeover has not come true. The works contracts were regularly extended by a few months, shortly before expiration. A long-term planning is unfortunately not possible for any of us. In the case of a takeover, the group would probably have to pay considerably more (salaries are between EUR 2148, - 2978, - gross plur 1,80 EUR travel expenses per day). Each of us tried to change, but is currently difficult, especially with the testimony of a service provider.

     Reply
115. Christoph

     @Simone
     “Thanks for the more detailed research. But I would not rate a lack of job advertisements on the company website as a sign that skilled workers are not being sought. "

     I may be misinterpreting the term “skilled worker nail”. I assumed that if there is a defect somewhere, the company in question will do its best to remedy it. So possibly to keep job advertisements on the homepage up to date.

     Likewise, someone who has not yet dealt so intensively with the issue of professional deficit suspects that if a company has found a specialist, they also tried to adjust it as quickly as possible.
     This idea is somewhat naive is shown by the contribution of ZDF:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIV-P6K2t4M

     Reply
116. Christoph

     @Simone
     “Thanks for the more detailed research. But I would not rate a lack of job advertisements on the company website as a sign that skilled workers are not being sought. "

     I may be misinterpreting the term “skilled worker nail”. I assumed that if there is a defect somewhere, the company in question will do its best to remedy it. So possibly to keep job advertisements on the homepage up to date.

     Likewise, someone who has not yet dealt so intensively with the issue of professional deficit suspects that if a company has found a specialist, they also tried to adjust it as quickly as possible.
     This idea is somewhat naive is shown by the contribution of ZDF:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIV-P6K2t4M

     Reply
117. Monika

     Hello Simone, Ralf and Christoph,

     I work in the Bavarian Ministry of Economic Affairs and follow the topic of brain drain and skilled labor intensively. Looking at the unemployment statistics, it still seems that graduates of the MINT subjects are less affected by unemployment than graduates of other disciplines.
     As far as “opening your eyes” is concerned, you can only argue convincingly in my area if you can provide verifiable figures. Perhaps it would be a good idea to commission an up-to-date study on the professional situation / career prospects of MINT graduates.
     Christoph, Indra is active in the security sector (among other things they produce the software for missile interception systems and security systems for monitoring the coast and the detection of smugglers' boats - these were at least some of the showcase projects in the exhibition. They are also active in the medical technology sector, with projects for paperless hospital and the electronic medical record). The security precautions were appropriate, I could imagine that this is the reason why you cannot find any job offers on the net. As I said, the head of R&D personally reported that the company is always looking for good people.

     A nice Saturday in the round,

     Monika

     Reply
118. Monika

     Hello Simone, Ralf and Christoph,

     I work in the Bavarian Ministry of Economic Affairs and follow the topic of brain drain and skilled labor intensively. Looking at the unemployment statistics, it still seems that graduates of the MINT subjects are less affected by unemployment than graduates of other disciplines.
     As far as “opening your eyes” is concerned, you can only argue convincingly in my area if you can provide verifiable figures. Perhaps it would be a good idea to commission an up-to-date study on the professional situation / career prospects of MINT graduates.
     Christoph, Indra is active in the security sector (among other things they produce the software for missile interception systems and security systems for monitoring the coast and the detection of smugglers' boats - these were at least some of the showcase projects in the exhibition. They are also active in the medical technology sector, with projects for paperless hospital and the electronic medical record). The security precautions were appropriate, I could imagine that this is the reason why you cannot find any job offers on the net. As I said, the head of R&D personally reported that the company is always looking for good people.

     A nice Saturday in the round,

     Monika

     Reply
119. Simone Janson

     Hi monika,
     thank you for the praise for the blog and your offer. I gladly forward your e-mail address on request (it does not appear publicly).
     Ralf, thanks for the info. I'm going to pass the topic, but it takes a while, as I said.
     Christoph: Thanks for the closer research. I would however not not missing job vacancies on the company site for that not yet skilled workers are sought. Not every company has its own career side, some are looking for new employees in job exchanges, etc.
     gruß
     Simone Janson

     Reply
120. Simone Janson

     Hi monika,
     thank you for the praise for the blog and your offer. I gladly forward your e-mail address on request (it does not appear publicly).
     Ralf, thanks for the info. I'm going to pass the topic, but it takes a while, as I said.
     Christoph: Thanks for the closer research. I would however not not missing job vacancies on the company site for that not yet skilled workers are sought. Not every company has its own career side, some are looking for new employees in job exchanges, etc.
     gruß
     Simone Janson

     Reply
121. Christoph

     Buenos dias, Monika. A mi me gusta Espania.

     Thank you for wanting to help us. I am supplied for my part. However, I have enough industry experience to know how the bunny runs. The company seems to settle in the field of consulting, so clearly what the company does, but it has not become me.

     > There the head of R&D reported that the company's biggest problem> was to find well-trained specialists.

     It does not seem to be necessary to have specialists, however, if there are no vacancies on the website under Job-Offers.
     Or maybe you are still looking for a specialist who can maintain the website ...

     Reply
122. Christoph

     Buenos dias, Monika. A mi me gusta Espania.

     Thank you for wanting to help us. I am supplied for my part. However, I have enough industry experience to know how the bunny runs. The company seems to settle in the field of consulting, so clearly what the company does, but it has not become me.

     > There the head of R&D reported that the company's biggest problem> was to find well-trained specialists.

     It does not seem to be necessary to have specialists, however, if there are no vacancies on the website under Job-Offers.
     Or maybe you are still looking for a specialist who can maintain the website ...

     Reply
123. Ralf

     @Monika

     Nice that the articles about the actual situation of the Ings have opened your eyes. The public must finally find out what is going on and how it really is about the “shortage of skilled workers”.
     Would it be possible if you could tell us how far you deal with the subject of “skills shortages”?

     In this forum you will find a lot of articles about the labor market situation: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/forum/ausbildung-studium-beruf
     Partially there is a lot of pessimism among them, but this is not a coincidence.

     In the resulting is this intimate community:
     

     Reply
124. Ralf

     @Monika

     Nice that the articles about the actual situation of the Ings have opened your eyes. The public must finally find out what is going on and how it really is about the “shortage of skilled workers”.
     Would it be possible if you could tell us how far you deal with the subject of “skills shortages”?

     In this forum you will find a lot of articles about the labor market situation: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/forum/ausbildung-studium-beruf
     Partially there is a lot of pessimism among them, but this is not a coincidence.

     In the resulting is this intimate community:
     

     Reply
125. Monika

     Hi all,

     I find this blog very interesting here. I am professionally concerned with the subject and, before I came across this page, I emanated from the specialist defendant. I see that now more critically. Thanks so for all posts.
     I was in Madrid 2 weeks ago and visited the company indra (www.indra.es). There the head of R&D reported that the company's biggest problem was finding well-trained specialists. When asked, I found out that they were looking for IT specialists and engineers. Indra is an international company, based in Madrid, but with offices worldwide. The company language is English. Maybe that would be something for Christoph and his computer scientists from the blog above?
     I keep my fingers crossed for you. Get in touch if you want the R&D boss's name.
     Regards

     Monika

     Reply
126. Monika

     Hi all,

     I find this blog very interesting here. I am professionally concerned with the subject and, before I came across this page, I emanated from the specialist defendant. I see that now more critically. Thanks so for all posts.
     I was in Madrid 2 weeks ago and visited the company indra (www.indra.es). There the head of R&D reported that the company's biggest problem was finding well-trained specialists. When asked, I found out that they were looking for IT specialists and engineers. Indra is an international company, based in Madrid, but with offices worldwide. The company language is English. Maybe that would be something for Christoph and his computer scientists from the blog above?
     I keep my fingers crossed for you. Get in touch if you want the R&D boss's name.
     Regards

     Monika

     Reply
127. Sandra

     Hello, I am very happy that I did not apply to engineering service providers (in retrospect). This morning I had a job interview with the company (subsidiary of one of the major steel companies) where I did my internship. Again an unsolicited application, but was worth it. They are interested in me and want to hire me. The job would even be permanent and abroad I do not have: D.

     Greetings Sandra

     Reply
128. Sandra

     Hello, I am very happy that I did not apply to engineering service providers (in retrospect). This morning I had a job interview with the company (subsidiary of one of the major steel companies) where I did my internship. Again an unsolicited application, but was worth it. They are interested in me and want to hire me. The job would even be permanent and abroad I do not have: D.

     Greetings Sandra

     Reply
129. Norbert

     Also to be considered are the many personnel leasing companies, that is to say “slave traders” who do not stop at engineers. The job boards are full of parasites.

     Reply
130. Norbert

     Also to be considered are the many personnel leasing companies, that is to say “slave traders” who do not stop at engineers. The job boards are full of parasites.

     Reply
131. Simone Janson

     Also an interesting aspect! Thank you!

     Reply
132. Simone Janson

     Also an interesting aspect! Thank you!

     Reply
133. Christoph

     Here, there is a contribution from someone who leads the perceived specialist deficit of the economy to too high demands of the companies:

     However, I have to say that the article is too biased, since it is not mentioned that the companies are also under competitive pressure and therefore need fast-use specialists.

     Reply
134. Christoph

     Here, there is a contribution from someone who leads the perceived specialist deficit of the economy to too high demands of the companies:

     However, I have to say that the article is too biased, since it is not mentioned that the companies are also under competitive pressure and therefore need fast-use specialists.

     Reply
135. Roland

     Hello Sabine ;)

     To prepare. Please write something about this initiative here:

     http://www.ig-ing.de/aktuell.htm

     The guys try to work up the topic a little and to present the point of view of the “affected”.
     The surveys there are also very interesting, although I am honestly still positively amazed at the actual amount of salaries in these surveys. Most people I know deserve far less.

     MfG, R.

     Reply
136. Roland

     Hello Sabine ;)

     To prepare. Please write something about this initiative here:

     http://www.ig-ing.de/aktuell.htm

     The guys try to work up the topic a little and to present the point of view of the “affected”.
     The surveys there are also very interesting, although I am honestly still positively amazed at the actual amount of salaries in these surveys. Most people I know deserve far less.

     MfG, R.

     Reply
137. Norbert

     Quote: "Possibly this would be a way for the future: to hire graduates for the first 3 years with a kind of internship salary until they have become specialists." Quote end

     Uh, are you still okay?

     After graduating, a graduate should still work 3 years for a small salary as an intern !? Do you honestly believe that someone else is willing to undertake an engineering degree? On average, 4 years of studying without a fixed income and then again 3 years as an intern working for low income.
     And after the 3 years as a trainee comes a new (s) product / technology into which one can again work as an intern?

     Reply
     1. Simone Janson

        Hello Norbert,
        that would also be a bit of my fear ... as I said: That's exactly how it works in the media sector ...
        If, however, nobody would be more interested in studying engineering, our problem would be solved here, would not it? :-)

        Reply
138. Norbert

     Quote: "Possibly this would be a way for the future: to hire graduates for the first 3 years with a kind of internship salary until they have become specialists." Quote end

     Uh, are you still okay?

     After graduating, a graduate should still work 3 years for a small salary as an intern !? Do you honestly believe that someone else is willing to undertake an engineering degree? On average, 4 years of studying without a fixed income and then again 3 years as an intern working for low income.
     And after the 3 years as a trainee comes a new (s) product / technology into which one can again work as an intern?

     Reply
     1. Simone Janson

        Hello Norbert,
        that would also be a bit of my fear ... as I said: That's exactly how it works in the media sector ...
        If, however, nobody would be more interested in studying engineering, our problem would be solved here, would not it? :-)

        Reply
139. Christoph

     > what does that say about Christoph? :-)
     Revision ;-)

     “Ok, back to the topic: Isn't there a risk that companies will throw out the expensive full-time employees after 3 years and only hire young students? That’s what’s happening in the media industry right now… so I’m skeptical… ”

     From my experience this does not apply in the same way in the MINT professions. In order to be able to work productively in a technical subject area, it takes a rather long time to work in. Let's assume a graduate is to optimize the injection nozzle of an 4 stroke engine. He does not learn this at a university in any depth. At university, he learns at most how an 4 stroke motor works. The knowledge for optimizing the injection nozzle is usually special and secret knowledge of the company. For this reason the changers are so valuable.

     Reply
140. Christoph

     > what does that say about Christoph? :-)
     Revision ;-)

     “Ok, back to the topic: Isn't there a risk that companies will throw out the expensive full-time employees after 3 years and only hire young students? That’s what’s happening in the media industry right now… so I’m skeptical… ”

     From my experience this does not apply in the same way in the MINT professions. In order to be able to work productively in a technical subject area, it takes a rather long time to work in. Let's assume a graduate is to optimize the injection nozzle of an 4 stroke engine. He does not learn this at a university in any depth. At university, he learns at most how an 4 stroke motor works. The knowledge for optimizing the injection nozzle is usually special and secret knowledge of the company. For this reason the changers are so valuable.

     Reply
141. Simone Janson

     My grandmother always called me Sabine…. but she was over 70 and kept confusing me with my cousin ... what does that say about Christoph? :-)
     Ok, back to the topic: Isn't there a risk that companies will throw out the expensive full-time employees after 3 years and only hire young students? Because that's what's happening in the media industry right now ... so I'm skeptical ...

     Reply
142. Simone Janson

     My grandmother always called me Sabine…. but she was over 70 and kept confusing me with my cousin ... what does that say about Christoph? :-)
     Ok, back to the topic: Isn't there a risk that companies will throw out the expensive full-time employees after 3 years and only hire young students? Because that's what's happening in the media industry right now ... so I'm skeptical ...

     Reply
143. Christoph

     > Companies should also have an advantage (eg better image) from training a student.

     For a larger German company, there was a program to integrate young graduates during an economic crisis. These were adjusted with a low hourly rate and low content.
     Perhaps this would be a way for the future: graduates to adjust the first 3 years with a kind of internship salary until you become skilled workers.
     Where I just notice: It is here about professional defenses. In industry, graduates per se are not skilled workers. It is only with 3-4 years of professional experience that one speaks of a specialist.

     Reply
144. Christoph

     > Companies should also have an advantage (eg better image) from training a student.

     For a larger German company, there was a program to integrate young graduates during an economic crisis. These were adjusted with a low hourly rate and low content.
     Perhaps this would be a way for the future: graduates to adjust the first 3 years with a kind of internship salary until you become skilled workers.
     Where I just notice: It is here about professional defenses. In industry, graduates per se are not skilled workers. It is only with 3-4 years of professional experience that one speaks of a specialist.

     Reply
145. Christoph

     > PS: Who is Sabine?

     Uhh, sorry, Simone, you meant :-)

     Reply
146. Christoph

     > PS: Who is Sabine?

     Uhh, sorry, Simone, you meant :-)

     Reply
147. Simone Janson

     Hello Christopher,
     thank you again for the comprehensive analysis of the situation.
     As you say, it is likely that every entrepreneur would do exactly the same to lose his competitive advantage. As a result, good persuasion does not matter: companies must also have an advantage (eg better image) to train a student.

     I find it very interesting, as I said, I just have to think about how to prepare the topic.

     gruß
     Simone

     PS: Who is Sabine?

     Reply
148. Simone Janson

     Hello Christopher,
     thank you again for the comprehensive analysis of the situation.
     As you say, it is likely that every entrepreneur would do exactly the same to lose his competitive advantage. As a result, good persuasion does not matter: companies must also have an advantage (eg better image) to train a student.

     I find it very interesting, as I said, I just have to think about how to prepare the topic.

     gruß
     Simone

     PS: Who is Sabine?

     Reply
149. Christoph

     The skilled workers solution from the Süddeutschen should collide in particular with the interests of the writer of this post from http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/132445:

     Author: experienced computer scientist (guest)
     Date: 02.12.2009 08: 41

     Hallo,
     we are a group of computer scientists from the area of ​​Cisco networks.
     We were at a large IT and electronics company (Munich)
     employed. All around 40 and with 10-12 years of experience. We
     were dismissed for operational reasons (no longer fit in
     Salary and age profile). The search for a new job remained
     unsuccessful in the past. Anbebote from the employment office (porter and
     Warehousing) are not very appealing. The
     German industry is a malicious fairy tale. We can only be urgent
     from a MINT study advise. The industry only sees us as
     Consumables, which are discarded after some time.

     Reply
150. Christoph

     The skilled workers solution from the Süddeutschen should collide in particular with the interests of the writer of this post from http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/132445:

     Author: experienced computer scientist (guest)
     Date: 02.12.2009 08: 41

     Hallo,
     we are a group of computer scientists from the area of ​​Cisco networks.
     We were at a large IT and electronics company (Munich)
     employed. All around 40 and with 10-12 years of experience. We
     were dismissed for operational reasons (no longer fit in
     Salary and age profile). The search for a new job remained
     unsuccessful in the past. Anbebote from the employment office (porter and
     Warehousing) are not very appealing. The
     German industry is a malicious fairy tale. We can only be urgent
     from a MINT study advise. The industry only sees us as
     Consumables, which are discarded after some time.

     Reply
151. Christoph

     Hello Sabine,

     You are right, it makes little sense to argue about the different chances of the professional groups. I know how difficult it is in the humanities. An acquaintance of mine works 12 hours and stumbles from one internship to another, because it is held by the employers.
     In this thread, it is indeed the question of the media deficit specialist deficit.

     I once again thought a little more about the job offer quoted above:

     Request from the 5.3.2010 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/169613)

     "We have been looking for HMI SW developers in the area for some time now
     embedded area. Somehow the market seems at this point
     to be empty. The salary can not be because there is simply no
     find suitable candidates. We are looking for MA with 3-4 years BE since the topic
     for graduates is probably too complex. "
     "- maximum age 45-50"
     Students with no professional experience are excluded as well as specialists from 51 years.
     From the company's point of view, this is understandable: someone is needed who can work productively immediately because the project is likely to be under deadline pressure.
     What is interesting is that if you are a specialist with 3 years of professional experience in the desired field, you must have gained this professional experience at another company.
     There are therefore two options for filling the position: Either the specialist changes voluntarily, or she has to be poached by the other company. In both cases there is a gap in the old company. If the old company is now looking for a skilled worker with the same qualifications, it will face the same problem. She then has two options: Either the specialist changes voluntarily, or she has to be poached by the other company, etc.
     The game is repeated and therefore the skill deficit is never to be eliminated unless a company in the chain is ready to hire a new student and study it in 3-4 years. This training phase costs the company money, of course, and it loses a competitive advantage over a company that has already been able to hire a skilled craftsman.
     For the company, which has published the position for the skilled tradesman, the mechanism described above always looks as if there were no specialists.
     There is also a further possibility for the companies to come to skilled skilled workers:
     However, the unemployed MINT specialists and the young engineers would be able to bring this method without a spot to white heat.

     Reply
152. Christoph

     Hello Sabine,

     You are right, it makes little sense to argue about the different chances of the professional groups. I know how difficult it is in the humanities. An acquaintance of mine works 12 hours and stumbles from one internship to another, because it is held by the employers.
     In this thread, it is indeed the question of the media deficit specialist deficit.

     I once again thought a little more about the job offer quoted above:

     Request from the 5.3.2010 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/169613)

     "We have been looking for HMI SW developers in the area for some time now
     embedded area. Somehow the market seems at this point
     to be empty. The salary can not be because there is simply no
     find suitable candidates. We are looking for MA with 3-4 years BE since the topic
     for graduates is probably too complex. "
     "- maximum age 45-50"
     Students with no professional experience are excluded as well as specialists from 51 years.
     From the company's point of view, this is understandable: someone is needed who can work productively immediately because the project is likely to be under deadline pressure.
     What is interesting is that if you are a specialist with 3 years of professional experience in the desired field, you must have gained this professional experience at another company.
     There are therefore two options for filling the position: Either the specialist changes voluntarily, or she has to be poached by the other company. In both cases there is a gap in the old company. If the old company is now looking for a skilled worker with the same qualifications, it will face the same problem. She then has two options: Either the specialist changes voluntarily, or she has to be poached by the other company, etc.
     The game is repeated and therefore the skill deficit is never to be eliminated unless a company in the chain is ready to hire a new student and study it in 3-4 years. This training phase costs the company money, of course, and it loses a competitive advantage over a company that has already been able to hire a skilled craftsman.
     For the company, which has published the position for the skilled tradesman, the mechanism described above always looks as if there were no specialists.
     There is also a further possibility for the companies to come to skilled skilled workers:
     However, the unemployed MINT specialists and the young engineers would be able to bring this method without a spot to white heat.

     Reply
153. Simone Janson

     @Christoph: Now I only get it with editing - sometimes I get really screwed ... you can send me an edited version of your text by email, which I will replace .. sorry ..

     @Roland: But I don't think that a fundamental discussion about the social conditions in Germany will help us ... there are a lot of professional groups who could sing the same lament that they are too poorly paid as a mainstay in society.
     The question is, and each group has to answer for itself, is what you can change.

     Reply
154. Simone Janson

     @Christoph: Now I only get it with editing - sometimes I get really screwed ... you can send me an edited version of your text by email, which I will replace .. sorry ..

     @Roland: But I don't think that a fundamental discussion about the social conditions in Germany will help us ... there are a lot of professional groups who could sing the same lament that they are too poorly paid as a mainstay in society.
     The question is, and each group has to answer for itself, is what you can change.

     Reply
155. Roland

     Pieeep :-) I look similar.
     If I belonged to the leadership "elite" of this country,
     then I would drive the same strategy.
     People and technology is the only resource we can manage here in our small overpopulated country.
     And we can not have enough of that.
     It's just a shame for the "victims", who are probably often lured onto a path by the roar from above that is good for the country but bad for personal development :-(

     Perhaps prosperity is also poorly distributed in Germany,
     otherwise some engineers would earn more for the vital role they play in society and the situation would be more satisfying. The Ings / Technicians / Infs / Researchers are virtually the pillars on which German prosperity rests because they generate materially usable innovation.

     Reply
156. Roland

     Pieeep :-) I look similar.
     If I belonged to the leadership "elite" of this country,
     then I would drive the same strategy.
     People and technology is the only resource we can manage here in our small overpopulated country.
     And we can not have enough of that.
     It's just a shame for the "victims", who are probably often lured onto a path by the roar from above that is good for the country but bad for personal development :-(

     Perhaps prosperity is also poorly distributed in Germany,
     otherwise some engineers would earn more for the vital role they play in society and the situation would be more satisfying. The Ings / Technicians / Infs / Researchers are virtually the pillars on which German prosperity rests because they generate materially usable innovation.

     Reply
157. Christoph

     It's a shame that I can't edit the text, there are some linguistic errors in it….

     Reply
158. Christoph

     It's a shame that I can't edit the text, there are some linguistic errors in it….

     Reply
159. Christoph

     > But it is a little difficult for me to believe in a targeted “conspiracy” by the Federal Agency> for Employment and Companies.

     To believe in a conspiracy theory would be similarly naive as the view of some people, the automobile industry would intentionally build cars that only hold 10 years so they can sell more cars.

     The contradiction between the media spread MINT lack and the actual situation situation can be explained as a kind "mechanism" completely without malicious conspiracy.

     It is generally acknowledged that the future prosperity in a country like Germany (low raw material, demography problems, globalization pressure) depends on the education of its own population.
     The largest share of the export surplus which determines the prosperity of our country now and in the next decades is generated by MINT-heavy occupational fields. It is therefore urgently required by the policy to provide young people in these areas. Industry, of course, is also concerned about a shortage of future employees and will advise policy on this.

     And this is where the problem arises: The industry must definitely avoid having a shortage of young talent, because this has direct consequences on profit development and competitiveness. However, it does not hurt the industry if a few percent of applicants bid too much: on the contrary, if there are more candidates than are needed, you can choose the best and negotiate the price.

     For this reason, the VDI news (at least the last 3 decades) was always written by an expert, regardless of the actual labor market situation.

     The "mechanism" is thus: too few young people are absolutely harmful for the competitiveness, just as many young people as required only in pain to accept, too many applicants is super!

     For the prosperity of the company are "too many" junior staff of advantage, for the surplus specialists find no job it is a disadvantage.

     Reply
     1. Simone Janson

        Thanks Christoph for the in-depth analysis of the situation ... Well, linguistic mistakes - unfortunately they occur faster than you can say Pip ...

        Reply
160. Christoph

     > But it is a little difficult for me to believe in a targeted “conspiracy” by the Federal Agency> for Employment and Companies.

     To believe in a conspiracy theory would be similarly naive as the view of some people, the automobile industry would intentionally build cars that only hold 10 years so they can sell more cars.

     The contradiction between the media spread MINT lack and the actual situation situation can be explained as a kind "mechanism" completely without malicious conspiracy.

     It is generally acknowledged that the future prosperity in a country like Germany (low raw material, demography problems, globalization pressure) depends on the education of its own population.
     The largest share of the export surplus which determines the prosperity of our country now and in the next decades is generated by MINT-heavy occupational fields. It is therefore urgently required by the policy to provide young people in these areas. Industry, of course, is also concerned about a shortage of future employees and will advise policy on this.

     And this is where the problem arises: The industry must definitely avoid having a shortage of young talent, because this has direct consequences on profit development and competitiveness. However, it does not hurt the industry if a few percent of applicants bid too much: on the contrary, if there are more candidates than are needed, you can choose the best and negotiate the price.

     For this reason, the VDI news (at least the last 3 decades) was always written by an expert, regardless of the actual labor market situation.

     The "mechanism" is thus: too few young people are absolutely harmful for the competitiveness, just as many young people as required only in pain to accept, too many applicants is super!

     For the prosperity of the company are "too many" junior staff of advantage, for the surplus specialists find no job it is a disadvantage.

     Reply
     1. Simone Janson

        Thanks Christoph for the in-depth analysis of the situation ... Well, linguistic mistakes - unfortunately they occur faster than you can say Pip ...

        Reply
161. Roland

     > But what interests me: Why do you think it's aged and for
     > Is easier for women in other areas? I wouldn't be convinced ...

     Let's say this: long-term observation. MINT is not studied for a high phase but as a profession for a whole life.
     My father is now ~ 20 years at Siemens (but still got a good salary in good times) and my mother is almost unemployed as an engineer since ~ 20 years, has now learned.
     I just see how hard it is and what jumps out of it.
     Most engineers land at a fairly average level in old age. Most business people, civil servants, bankers, medical professionals, which I know are more likely to belong to the upper class. I know a lot of older engineers that the market simply does not accept anymore, which ones then
     financially, or away from their industry.
     That is for example. with doctors or teachers only very rarely the case.

     If I look at biographies of women who have learned a “female profession”, they are usually more successful in the long term than women in male professions. E.g. Most doctors and civil servants are still doing very well in old age.

     The engineering profession is therefore a more difficult one because one has to develop further for life and always have to maintain the competitiveness of younger colleagues. Only a fraction of the engineers in industrial companies eventually landed in a leadership position most of the others somewhere in the normal hierarchy. Age is also seen as a stumbling block in the relatively high stress situation in industrial enterprises. An economist is needed
     eg. not with 57 years like my dad getting into a completely new programming language.

     The risk in the industry is simply enormous, it starts with the high diarrheal rates in the university (from ~ 50%) then goes to the distribution of the jobs where only the best have good chances further. Later, the risk of unemployment increases enormously with age. To this end, working life today requires a high degree of local flexibility, especially in the technical field, because
     it does not provide qualified jobs for engineers at every corner.
     The labor market for engineers is also subject to large fluctuations, which are closely linked to the order situation of the industry. In short: an unpredictable risk is taken with the decision for the engineering sciences.
     The return on this is unfortunately often lousy nowadays. You can have it much easier with another profession.

     Personally, I can only recommend the profession to people who can not imagine anything other than technology and willing to make sacrifices.

     Everything may sound very negative now, but I wanted to draw a contrast to the “engineers wringing hand wanted - insane job prospects” faction, you have to know what you are getting into when you as a “modern worker” without a large lobby with the unfortunately Lately shaky German industry is planning its life.

     Reply
162. Roland

     > But what interests me: Why do you think it's aged and for
     > Is easier for women in other areas? I wouldn't be convinced ...

     Let's say this: long-term observation. MINT is not studied for a high phase but as a profession for a whole life.
     My father is now ~ 20 years at Siemens (but still got a good salary in good times) and my mother is almost unemployed as an engineer since ~ 20 years, has now learned.
     I just see how hard it is and what jumps out of it.
     Most engineers land at a fairly average level in old age. Most business people, civil servants, bankers, medical professionals, which I know are more likely to belong to the upper class. I know a lot of older engineers that the market simply does not accept anymore, which ones then
     financially, or away from their industry.
     That is for example. with doctors or teachers only very rarely the case.

     If I look at biographies of women who have learned a “female profession”, they are usually more successful in the long term than women in male professions. E.g. Most doctors and civil servants are still doing very well in old age.

     The engineering profession is therefore a more difficult one because one has to develop further for life and always have to maintain the competitiveness of younger colleagues. Only a fraction of the engineers in industrial companies eventually landed in a leadership position most of the others somewhere in the normal hierarchy. Age is also seen as a stumbling block in the relatively high stress situation in industrial enterprises. An economist is needed
     eg. not with 57 years like my dad getting into a completely new programming language.

     The risk in the industry is simply enormous, it starts with the high diarrheal rates in the university (from ~ 50%) then goes to the distribution of the jobs where only the best have good chances further. Later, the risk of unemployment increases enormously with age. To this end, working life today requires a high degree of local flexibility, especially in the technical field, because
     it does not provide qualified jobs for engineers at every corner.
     The labor market for engineers is also subject to large fluctuations, which are closely linked to the order situation of the industry. In short: an unpredictable risk is taken with the decision for the engineering sciences.
     The return on this is unfortunately often lousy nowadays. You can have it much easier with another profession.

     Personally, I can only recommend the profession to people who can not imagine anything other than technology and willing to make sacrifices.

     Everything may sound very negative now, but I wanted to draw a contrast to the “engineers wringing hand wanted - insane job prospects” faction, you have to know what you are getting into when you as a “modern worker” without a large lobby with the unfortunately Lately shaky German industry is planning its life.

     Reply
163. Simone Janson

     @ Roland: That's what I meant too. Ignorance of the situation. It's good that there are blogs and threads like that. Thanks for the praise on the blog - now the advertisers just have to see it that way :-). But what interests me: Why do you think that it is easier in old age and for women in other areas? I wouldn't be convinced ...

     @Christoph: "In the anonymity of many forum posts, one or the other shoots over the target." Thank you for the confirmation. Of course, the companies assume that you have acquired the knowledge yourself either during your studies or privately :-) You can find it difficult now - but as I said, as a self-employed I find it completely normal that you first invest, also in your own further education ... on I have collected a few examples from people who have entered IT in a non-technical way and tell how they did it.

     @Ralf. Thanks for pointing this out ... the humanities scholars were meant the other way around: They just have bigger problems finding a job ...

     Reply
164. Simone Janson

     @ Roland: That's what I meant too. Ignorance of the situation. It's good that there are blogs and threads like that. Thanks for the praise on the blog - now the advertisers just have to see it that way :-). But what interests me: Why do you think that it is easier in old age and for women in other areas? I wouldn't be convinced ...

     @Christoph: "In the anonymity of many forum posts, one or the other shoots over the target." Thank you for the confirmation. Of course, the companies assume that you have acquired the knowledge yourself either during your studies or privately :-) You can find it difficult now - but as I said, as a self-employed I find it completely normal that you first invest, also in your own further education ... on I have collected a few examples from people who have entered IT in a non-technical way and tell how they did it.

     @Ralf. Thanks for pointing this out ... the humanities scholars were meant the other way around: They just have bigger problems finding a job ...

     Reply
165. Ralf

     Hello Mrs. Janson,

     It is also a common practice in companies to advertise fictitious engineering positions, but these are deliberately not filled. This also contributes to the rumor of the “shortage of skilled workers”.

     Their comparison with the spiritual scientists is not quite clear to me. I have not heard from anyone (business, associations, politics, etc.) that there is a lack of spiritual scientists.

     Reply
166. Ralf

     Hello Mrs. Janson,

     It is also a common practice in companies to advertise fictitious engineering positions, but these are deliberately not filled. This also contributes to the rumor of the “shortage of skilled workers”.

     Their comparison with the spiritual scientists is not quite clear to me. I have not heard from anyone (business, associations, politics, etc.) that there is a lack of spiritual scientists.

     Reply
167. Roland

     By the way: great site here! You write interesting articles, keep it up!

     Reply
168. Roland

     By the way: great site here! You write interesting articles, keep it up!

     Reply
169. Roland

     > But I find it a little difficult to commit to a targeted “conspiracy” by
     > To believe the Federal Employment Agency - I read that too
     > from the contribution by Mr. Schmitz.

     Hello Simone,
     I don't think that's a “conspiracy”. It is just complete ignorance of the situation. You only get to know them when you are an engineer on the market yourself. I also think there are professions in which the situation is far more serious than it is in ours (where you are addressing the most complex with humanities), professions where not 5 or 10 but 50 or 100 applications end up on the table. Despite everything, me and my friends ings. , also in other companies all over Germany, now find it a mockery when people talk about shortages. In any case, we are not treated like “shortage objects” but rather like interchangeable work slaves.

     As I said I suspect the industry is calling to push wages further and the media and politicians react out of ignorance. Look at the labor market, the flourishing lending companies, Ferchau, Bertrand, etc., etc. which get enough engineering names to the start.

     Somehow, you must notice that there is a certain non-logic, on the one hand lack of engineers on the other hand temporary workers?

     As far as women are concerned, I have a girlfriend who has a small odyssey through various companies (as an engineer). So what she has experienced there (one company was by the way Ford and another BMW)
     is something of evil, that I would not advise any woman even in the remotest to enter into this men's domain. Girls, stays with what is safe for you, lemming, medicine etc. Engineer means immense risk, which is much higher than that of a man in the profession.

     I have resigned myself to what it is, but I keep my eyes open for alternatives. Currently, I find it interesting to save a few years of all my money and maybe once again study. In Romania you can eg. for ~ 5000 Euro a year study medicine. Be ahead of the engineer in old age I'll be shit! I realize that there is only one thing on time, as long as I am young and powerful.

     Reply
170. Roland

     > But I find it a little difficult to commit to a targeted “conspiracy” by
     > To believe the Federal Employment Agency - I read that too
     > from the contribution by Mr. Schmitz.

     Hello Simone,
     I don't think that's a “conspiracy”. It is just complete ignorance of the situation. You only get to know them when you are an engineer on the market yourself. I also think there are professions in which the situation is far more serious than it is in ours (where you are addressing the most complex with humanities), professions where not 5 or 10 but 50 or 100 applications end up on the table. Despite everything, me and my friends ings. , also in other companies all over Germany, now find it a mockery when people talk about shortages. In any case, we are not treated like “shortage objects” but rather like interchangeable work slaves.

     As I said I suspect the industry is calling to push wages further and the media and politicians react out of ignorance. Look at the labor market, the flourishing lending companies, Ferchau, Bertrand, etc., etc. which get enough engineering names to the start.

     Somehow, you must notice that there is a certain non-logic, on the one hand lack of engineers on the other hand temporary workers?

     As far as women are concerned, I have a girlfriend who has a small odyssey through various companies (as an engineer). So what she has experienced there (one company was by the way Ford and another BMW)
     is something of evil, that I would not advise any woman even in the remotest to enter into this men's domain. Girls, stays with what is safe for you, lemming, medicine etc. Engineer means immense risk, which is much higher than that of a man in the profession.

     I have resigned myself to what it is, but I keep my eyes open for alternatives. Currently, I find it interesting to save a few years of all my money and maybe once again study. In Romania you can eg. for ~ 5000 Euro a year study medicine. Be ahead of the engineer in old age I'll be shit! I realize that there is only one thing on time, as long as I am young and powerful.

     Reply
171. Roland

     Nice thread here.
     I am similar: above average in Berlin completed and now since 2 years a time-limited contract, although the company is billions and enough work is there. Salary well below 40k and I am at least a job to have heilfroh.
     But they can just do it, because there are enough applicants and this over-performance worsens the conditions for the workers :-(
     I can also just say MINT deficiency does not exist. From lack one can only speak, if one is of opinion 5-10 applicants per place are too little! My personal opinion: it is true that soon many retirees retire, however, I think that only the break-off of the jobs in the MINT area will somewhat cushion, an actual deficiency will not arise. There will always be enough people to study in spite of bad conditions, there are just a lot of people who want to make technology and that will never change. To do this: supply and demand, as wages rise, more people will also find the job more interesting.
     For me, the whole MINT shortage propaganda is nothing more than misty candles to distract from the actual structural and political problems in Germany.

     Reply
     1. Simone Janson

        Hi Roland,
        as far as I can see, it actually seems a little difficult to speak of a MINT deficiency. Indirectly Bernd Schmitz from Bayer has confirmed in another thread yes, at least he has said his personal opinion.
        But I find it a little difficult to believe in a targeted “conspiracy” by the Federal Employment Agency - I also read that from Mr Schmitz's contribution.
        For example, the situation is even worse with the spiritual scientists: from an indefinite position, indeed from a place, many can only dream of it from special job advertisements, and there are certainly more people who want to do something with culture and the media than with technology.
        So maybe the companies simply said they need engineers, which is what they do, at least more as humanities scholars, and someone thought: “Hey, they are looking for engineers, there seems to be a shortage, let's start one Campaign…"? Which is also due to the fact that, in my opinion, the Federal Employment Agency would like to ensure that people study a relatively safe subject and then specifically apply for appropriateCourses. As I said: In other subjects it looks even worse….

        Reply
172. Roland

     Nice thread here.
     I am similar: above average in Berlin completed and now since 2 years a time-limited contract, although the company is billions and enough work is there. Salary well below 40k and I am at least a job to have heilfroh.
     But they can just do it, because there are enough applicants and this over-performance worsens the conditions for the workers :-(
     I can also just say MINT deficiency does not exist. From lack one can only speak, if one is of opinion 5-10 applicants per place are too little! My personal opinion: it is true that soon many retirees retire, however, I think that only the break-off of the jobs in the MINT area will somewhat cushion, an actual deficiency will not arise. There will always be enough people to study in spite of bad conditions, there are just a lot of people who want to make technology and that will never change. To do this: supply and demand, as wages rise, more people will also find the job more interesting.
     For me, the whole MINT shortage propaganda is nothing more than misty candles to distract from the actual structural and political problems in Germany.

     Reply
     1. Simone Janson

        Hi Roland,
        as far as I can see, it actually seems a little difficult to speak of a MINT deficiency. Indirectly Bernd Schmitz from Bayer has confirmed in another thread yes, at least he has said his personal opinion.
        But I find it a little difficult to believe in a targeted “conspiracy” by the Federal Employment Agency - I also read that from Mr Schmitz's contribution.
        For example, the situation is even worse with the spiritual scientists: from an indefinite position, indeed from a place, many can only dream of it from special job advertisements, and there are certainly more people who want to do something with culture and the media than with technology.
        So maybe the companies simply said they need engineers, which is what they do, at least more as humanities scholars, and someone thought: “Hey, they are looking for engineers, there seems to be a shortage, let's start one Campaign…"? Which is also due to the fact that, in my opinion, the Federal Employment Agency would like to ensure that people study a relatively safe subject and then specifically apply for appropriateCourses. As I said: In other subjects it looks even worse….

        Reply
173. Christoph

     Hello Simone,

     thank you for noting that you attach importance to factual unpolemical contributions. In the anonymity of many forum contributions, but one or the other shoots beyond the goal.

     Here is an example of a forum contribution, which represents the current defenses of today's companies very well:
     http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/169613

     In the forum contribution, the first writer is intensively looking for a specialist who can program HMI interfaces (HMI interface: human machine interface, a touch-sensitive screen as in the I-Phone). The specialist should be at least 3-4 years of professional experience but not older than 45 years.

     It is so that one can not study the programming of touch-sensitive screens. A computer scientist or electrical engineer can do this task very well if he is dealing with this topic in a company about 1 year.
     Since there are not so long touch-sensitive screens, the number of people who have done this before, rather low. However, due to time or financial reasons, the company can not invest a whole year in a new employee until it works productively.
     This is why the company speaks of a skilled labor force, while on the other hand there are many graduates and old engineers from the MINT subjects who are looking for a job.

     So you can see that there are two perspectives: the companies that are under pressure to spend and need productive employees and the STEM professionals who can not find a job.

     Reply
174. Christoph

     Hello Simone,

     thank you for noting that you attach importance to factual unpolemical contributions. In the anonymity of many forum contributions, but one or the other shoots beyond the goal.

     Here is an example of a forum contribution, which represents the current defenses of today's companies very well:
     http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/169613

     In the forum contribution, the first writer is intensively looking for a specialist who can program HMI interfaces (HMI interface: human machine interface, a touch-sensitive screen as in the I-Phone). The specialist should be at least 3-4 years of professional experience but not older than 45 years.

     It is so that one can not study the programming of touch-sensitive screens. A computer scientist or electrical engineer can do this task very well if he is dealing with this topic in a company about 1 year.
     Since there are not so long touch-sensitive screens, the number of people who have done this before, rather low. However, due to time or financial reasons, the company can not invest a whole year in a new employee until it works productively.
     This is why the company speaks of a skilled labor force, while on the other hand there are many graduates and old engineers from the MINT subjects who are looking for a job.

     So you can see that there are two perspectives: the companies that are under pressure to spend and need productive employees and the STEM professionals who can not find a job.

     Reply
175. Simone Janson

     Hello Mighty,
     thanks for the hint ... I'll just skip your last paragraph - these generalizations bother me again. I know, for example, very nice business economists who are not only interested in money :-)
     This is exactly what I meant with polemic and emotional. And it would be nice if the discutants would not use pseudonyms.
     Thank you
     Simone Janson

     Reply
176. Simone Janson

     Hello Mighty,
     thanks for the hint ... I'll just skip your last paragraph - these generalizations bother me again. I know, for example, very nice business economists who are not only interested in money :-)
     This is exactly what I meant with polemic and emotional. And it would be nice if the discutants would not use pseudonyms.
     Thank you
     Simone Janson

     Reply
177. Mighty

     Also note the additional threads in the subforum
     Mrs. Janson. Especially the bigger ones (extravagant)
     Threads are under very readable; If so, too
     often quite exaggerated and of subjective, bad
     Experiences.

     However, it can be stated: The big water head
     large to medium-sized companies and also the policy
     has forgotten Who in this country creates the values ​​and
     especially why. Unlike the operators, it is
     not at all just for the money.

     Reply
178. Mighty

     Also note the additional threads in the subforum
     Mrs. Janson. Especially the bigger ones (extravagant)
     Threads are under very readable; If so, too
     often quite exaggerated and of subjective, bad
     Experiences.

     However, it can be stated: The big water head
     large to medium-sized companies and also the policy
     has forgotten Who in this country creates the values ​​and
     especially why. Unlike the operators, it is
     not at all just for the money.

     Reply
179. Christoph

     As far as the shortage of STEM professionals is concerned, one has to know that we live in a “media democracy”. In a media democracy, various interest groups try to influence the opinion of the population.
     There are, for example, industrial organizations such as the VDI / VDE which are launching the articles on the fight for skilled labor in the media in order to find cheap labor. (eg)
     On the other hand there are more and more people from the MINT area, who are suffering from the current situation and can see the situation: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/132445

     Reply
     1. Simone Janson

        Hello Christoph, thank you for the links with something more concrete information, which could be very useful in a further research.

        Reply
180. Christoph

     As far as the shortage of STEM professionals is concerned, one has to know that we live in a “media democracy”. In a media democracy, various interest groups try to influence the opinion of the population.
     There are, for example, industrial organizations such as the VDI / VDE which are launching the articles on the fight for skilled labor in the media in order to find cheap labor. (eg)
     On the other hand there are more and more people from the MINT area, who are suffering from the current situation and can see the situation: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/132445

     Reply
     1. Simone Janson

        Hello Christoph, thank you for the links with something more concrete information, which could be very useful in a further research.

        Reply
181. Karen

     Hello Petra,

     I had worked several times during the semester break at companies as a working student and completed my diploma thesis at a large group in Erlangen. Unfortunately, the financial crisis and the economic slump came before a hiring.

     Reply
182. Karen

     Hello Petra,

     I had worked several times during the semester break at companies as a working student and completed my diploma thesis at a large group in Erlangen. Unfortunately, the financial crisis and the economic slump came before a hiring.

     Reply
183. Petra

     Hello to Karen and Sandra, I am particularly interested in whether you tried to establish practical contacts during your studies, completed internships or possibly participated in funding programs. I myself am a humanities scholar - you have to get involved right from the start of your studies, otherwise it will be really difficult with well-paid and interesting jobs….

     Reply
184. Petra

     Hello to Karen and Sandra, I am particularly interested in whether you tried to establish practical contacts during your studies, completed internships or possibly participated in funding programs. I myself am a humanities scholar - you have to get involved right from the start of your studies, otherwise it will be really difficult with well-paid and interesting jobs….

     Reply
185. Sandra

     Many do not know the real situation and if you would do a statistical analysis, you would have to research very thoroughly and intensively. There are the graduates, no matter whether mechanical engineering, computer science and natural science, who either work in one of these service companies, or refer Hartz 4, who continue to study, do a doctorate or work unfamiliar to a specialist, because they have not found a job. That would interest me also burning, but certainly not the policy and certainly not the company!

     Regards

     Sandra

     Reply
186. Sandra

     Many do not know the real situation and if you would do a statistical analysis, you would have to research very thoroughly and intensively. There are the graduates, no matter whether mechanical engineering, computer science and natural science, who either work in one of these service companies, or refer Hartz 4, who continue to study, do a doctorate or work unfamiliar to a specialist, because they have not found a job. That would interest me also burning, but certainly not the policy and certainly not the company!

     Regards

     Sandra

     Reply
187. Simone Janson

     Goes well with yesterday's discussion): Expect #young professionals just too much: ...

     Reply
188. Simone Janson

     Goes well with yesterday's discussion): Expect #young professionals just too much: ...

     Reply
189. Simone Janson

     Hello Karen,
     This is a topic that I will definitely take up again and do more research - with more precise figures, statements from business and politics, etc. To be honest, I had hoped for a few statements from the company - it just seems to be silent To confirm your statement. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, as always, this is a time problem.
     To your decision to go to Stockholm, I can only congratulate you: Superschöne city and area there.
     gruß
     Simone Janson

     Reply
190. Karen

     It would be important for the high school students to point out that the talk about a lack of MINT specialists in Germany is not true. The first semesters go to university with great expectations, with almost half remaining on the line, after the conclusion that we are not needed in Germany. This is extremely frustrating. I had not imagined myself to live and feel like a H4-Aufstocker after my launch, as politics despise us. I am pleasantly surprised by my application in Sweden. On Friday, a former colleague had given my documents in Stockholm to the personnel department of the company where he was working. Today, I received an acknowledgment of receipt by e-mail with the remark that one would be very interested and will promptly return to the application. German companies do not even receive a machine receipt confirmation, much less an answer. From this experience, my decision to reject Germany is confirmed, because here it is only annoying.

     Reply
191. Karen

     It would be important for the high school students to point out that the talk about a lack of MINT specialists in Germany is not true. The first semesters go to university with great expectations, with almost half remaining on the line, after the conclusion that we are not needed in Germany. This is extremely frustrating. I had not imagined myself to live and feel like a H4-Aufstocker after my launch, as politics despise us. I am pleasantly surprised by my application in Sweden. On Friday, a former colleague had given my documents in Stockholm to the personnel department of the company where he was working. Today, I received an acknowledgment of receipt by e-mail with the remark that one would be very interested and will promptly return to the application. German companies do not even receive a machine receipt confirmation, much less an answer. From this experience, my decision to reject Germany is confirmed, because here it is only annoying.

     Reply
192. Andy Hilker

     RT @almameise: #Jobchancen of # MINT- # graduates equal to zero? Exciting discussion at @SimoneJanson on Participate!

     Reply
193. Andy Hilker

     RT @almameise: #Jobchancen of # MINT- # graduates equal to zero? Exciting discussion at @SimoneJanson on Participate!

     Reply
194. Johannes Lenz

     Hello all,

     as I find an interesting discussion, which gives an insight into the reality that some will not like. What is it all about?

     I got it that way and I blame it on:

     For some time now, the government has been trying to get more high school graduates to study these subjects through the MINT initiative because graduates of these subjects are in demand.

     But Karen and Sandra are impressive in their comments.

     Ergo: MINT graduates do not get a job although they were encouraged to study and talk about a shortage of skilled workers.

     I find your statements @Karen & @Sandara really interesting and I really hope that you get a job. I have already referred to this discussion here via the social media channels available to us. In any case, you can send your résumés via email to pr [at] alma-mater.de and we'll see what we can do.

     A few (critical) comments: Perhaps it also depends on the study, that one has graduated in the framework of MINT, as the job chances stand. I think computer scientists almost always have good entry chances.

     In this context, generalizations are also wrong. You should look closely, for example with the help of the previous data on MINT graduates about the initiative itself or many times at the HIS or the INCHER in Kassel to inquire how the situation is according to the facts.

     Finally: I think it's great @Karen & @Sandra that you have reacted to Simone's post. Your situation also reminds me a little of how I was looking for a job after graduation, even if I had nothing to do with STEM. It was difficult and I often heard the reason that I simply had too little professional experience ... despite proper internships during my studies, etc.

     In the meantime, I am a volunteer at almat mater, have done a cool job for over a year and a half, and have completed an internship at BMW before. In addition, I am working intensively on social media and trying to develop new challenges in this area.

     I mean: There are ways, some open up, even if they are sometimes hard and rocky - but you can do it. Don't let your head hang down and think about exactly what you want and what you can do for it or still have to learn. You can find advice from the alma mater recruiting team and many other consultants. But first you must know where the journey is going to go.

     Best regards from Stuttgart

     John

     Reply
195. Johannes Lenz

     Hello all,

     as I find an interesting discussion, which gives an insight into the reality that some will not like. What is it all about?

     I got it that way and I blame it on:

     For some time now, the government has been trying to get more high school graduates to study these subjects through the MINT initiative because graduates of these subjects are in demand.

     But Karen and Sandra are impressive in their comments.

     Ergo: MINT graduates do not get a job although they were encouraged to study and talk about a shortage of skilled workers.

     I find your statements @Karen & @Sandara really interesting and I really hope that you get a job. I have already referred to this discussion here via the social media channels available to us. In any case, you can send your résumés via email to pr [at] alma-mater.de and we'll see what we can do.

     A few (critical) comments: Perhaps it also depends on the study, that one has graduated in the framework of MINT, as the job chances stand. I think computer scientists almost always have good entry chances.

     In this context, generalizations are also wrong. You should look closely, for example with the help of the previous data on MINT graduates about the initiative itself or many times at the HIS or the INCHER in Kassel to inquire how the situation is according to the facts.

     Finally: I think it's great @Karen & @Sandra that you have reacted to Simone's post. Your situation also reminds me a little of how I was looking for a job after graduation, even if I had nothing to do with STEM. It was difficult and I often heard the reason that I simply had too little professional experience ... despite proper internships during my studies, etc.

     In the meantime, I am a volunteer at almat mater, have done a cool job for over a year and a half, and have completed an internship at BMW before. In addition, I am working intensively on social media and trying to develop new challenges in this area.

     I mean: There are ways, some open up, even if they are sometimes hard and rocky - but you can do it. Don't let your head hang down and think about exactly what you want and what you can do for it or still have to learn. You can find advice from the alma mater recruiting team and many other consultants. But first you must know where the journey is going to go.

     Best regards from Stuttgart

     John

     Reply
196. Alma Mater

     #Jobchancen of # MINT- # graduates equal to zero? Exciting discussion at @SimoneJanson on Participate!

     Reply
197. Alma Mater

     #Jobchancen of # MINT- # graduates equal to zero? Exciting discussion at @SimoneJanson on Participate!

     Reply
198. Sandra

     I can only confirm Karen, I have also been applying unsuccessfully for over half a year. Mostly on the initiative, as there are no positions for graduates (biotechnology FH). Nobody from my year even found a job, over 50% fled to a master’s degree (as a Dpl. Ing!) And the very good are doing their doctorate. But it is also a fact that many graduates who finished their studies before me, before the economic crisis, did not find a job here and are now working abroad (Scandinavia and the USA). That amazed me at the time, as people are desperately looking for things here (supposedly). Now I am also thinking about going abroad. What should you do?

     Reply
199. Sandra

     I can only confirm Karen, I have also been applying unsuccessfully for over half a year. Mostly on the initiative, as there are no positions for graduates (biotechnology FH). Nobody from my year even found a job, over 50% fled to a master’s degree (as a Dpl. Ing!) And the very good are doing their doctorate. But it is also a fact that many graduates who finished their studies before me, before the economic crisis, did not find a job here and are now working abroad (Scandinavia and the USA). That amazed me at the time, as people are desperately looking for things here (supposedly). Now I am also thinking about going abroad. What should you do?

     Reply
200. Simone Janson

     Good luck.
     You can tell us how it works. Perhaps this also interests other MINT-Abgänger.
     gruß
     Simone Janson

     Reply
201. Simone Janson

     Good luck.
     You can tell us how it works. Perhaps this also interests other MINT-Abgänger.
     gruß
     Simone Janson

     Reply
202. Karen

     A fellow student working in Stockholm took my application papers to his company. He wanted to get in touch next week. If I get the chance of a full time job, I will go to Stockholm.
     Thank you and best regards
     Karen

     Reply
203. Karen

     A fellow student working in Stockholm took my application papers to his company. He wanted to get in touch next week. If I get the chance of a full time job, I will go to Stockholm.
     Thank you and best regards
     Karen

     Reply
204. Simone Janson

     Love Karen,
     I know such statements otherwise only by humanities scholars, so I was a little surprised .. :-)
     Anyway, maybe I can get in touch with companies looking for engineers. But I can't make any promises, the focus must also be right. Just stop by the days ...
     gruß
     SImone Janson

     Reply
205. Simone Janson

     Love Karen,
     I know such statements otherwise only by humanities scholars, so I was a little surprised .. :-)
     Anyway, maybe I can get in touch with companies looking for engineers. But I can't make any promises, the focus must also be right. Just stop by the days ...
     gruß
     SImone Janson

     Reply
206. Karen

     Hello, I'm sorry if I put this on you. But the hair on the back of my neck sprinkles when I read about a lack of mint. My semester ended about 1 year ago (University of Erlangen) and although compared to the beginning semester about 40% did not complete the course, only about 5% are in a permanent contract. A company in Erlangen has been “disposing” of engineers and IT specialists for over 50 years. Many from our semester have turned their backs on Germany and work in Scandinavia, Austria and Switzerland. Others are busy as H4 top-ups and hope for better times. Many with good degrees are also affected. In the few conversations you were allowed to have in the HR departments, you could clearly feel the arrogance. From our point of view, the course is no longer worthwhile because there is obviously no need.

     Reply
207. Karen

     Hello, I'm sorry if I put this on you. But the hair on the back of my neck sprinkles when I read about a lack of mint. My semester ended about 1 year ago (University of Erlangen) and although compared to the beginning semester about 40% did not complete the course, only about 5% are in a permanent contract. A company in Erlangen has been “disposing” of engineers and IT specialists for over 50 years. Many from our semester have turned their backs on Germany and work in Scandinavia, Austria and Switzerland. Others are busy as H4 top-ups and hope for better times. Many with good degrees are also affected. In the few conversations you were allowed to have in the HR departments, you could clearly feel the arrogance. From our point of view, the course is no longer worthwhile because there is obviously no need.

     Reply
208. Simone Janson

     Hello Karen,
     thank you for your report - even if I would have preferred a little less angry polemics and some factual background information. Correction: It is not “my” initiative, but that of the employment agency and others - and I will report on it. And if it is out of place, you could definitely discuss with well-founded arguments, that's what this blog is for!
     I guess you are MINT graduate on job search?
     Unfortunately, do not say anything about your background, qualifications or sources for your information - that would be helpful for further discussion.
     In any case, I am going to put your comment to the discussion with suitable contact persons, eg personnel specialists in the search for MINT graduates, and would be delighted if you would participate.

     gruß
     Simone Janson

     Reply
209. Karen

     I do not believe the reality on the labor market is known here. Mint graduates do not get a chance to get started and are dependent on H4. Engineers with 3 to 5 years of professional experience are given temporary contracts until mostly April 2011. Justification, if at all given, is the full free movement of labor in the EU (especially for our eastern neighbors) from April 2011. Employers expect low-leveling. Mint specialists in groups which have passed the 50th year of life are disposed of (a manager's statement in a discussion in Frankfurt). On the basis of these facts there can be no shortage of MINT specialists, at most to professionals who want to permanently live as H4-Aufstocker. With their relentless initiative, they only push more graduates into H4.

     Reply
210. Dr. Elfi Furtmuller

     During the crisis, engineers benefit, for example, from a part-time MBA course - this Austrian model is based on video courses and online tutoring, whereby the course can be interrupted at any time if the job becomes more stressful again.

     Info on

     Information on international Executive MBA studies on the Finnish Turku University of Aplied Sciences (study language German or English) can be found here:

     Reply
     1. Simone Janson

        Thanks for the additional information!

        Reply
211. Simone Janson

     Hello Thorsten,
     Thanks for the comment. You don't really like statistics, do you? :-) However, there are already initial efforts to get the problem under control. The culprit has been identified in the education system and you are now trying to help - which may well be right. I posted this post just two days ago:.
     The latest craze, both on the part of the employment agency as well as the company, seems to be about wanting to bring more women into technical and scientific subjects. After having dealt extensively with this topic for an article at studienwahl.de and several “affected” women (see also www.berufebilder.de/ about / texte / reportage-girls-go-tech) interviewed on the subject, I see these “girls, studying technology, there are jobs”, but a bit skeptical: In my opinion, this problem is deeper and should probably be in kindergarten to be addressed. It is a bit too late to want to “reroute” the girls only when they are choosing a course of study.
     gruß
     Simone

     Reply
212. Thorsten

     Again a number of figures, which the staff will appreciate gratefully. But is it useful? There are rather copschüttelnd statistics on the hand instead of slowly slowly something to do. The companies simply do not prepare for the coming, much bigger deficiency. Although it is not a secret series and they know it long ago. How much easier is it to push the debt on the labor market and just wave with such numbers when the boss asks why you can no longer find engineers, instead of money, technology, marketing and manpower to allocate and activate as a winner out of the matter ,

     Reply
213. Simone Janson

     Why studying STEM makes sense: Help, skills shortage!

     Reply
214. Simone Janson

     Why studying STEM makes sense: Help, skills shortage!

     Reply