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By Simone Janson (More) • Last updated on October 19.11.2010, XNUMX • First published on 19.11.2010/XNUMX/XNUMX • So far 7147 readers, 1189 social media shares Likes & Reviews (5 / 5) • Read & write comments
A recent study by DIW speaks for itself Best of HR – Berufebilder.de® has been hotly debated for months: We may not have a shortage of skilled workers! But how could that happen? Conspiracy of companies and the media - or just a gambling game and many misunderstandings?
Schildbügerstreich? Media Crime? Or large scale wage dumping? The fact is, if the issue of professional defensiveness was not so serious and there were not so many injured victims, the story would be almost funny. Because all, really all, have participated: associations, employment agency and the oh so critical media at the Fachkräfte-Mangel-Chor.
And now that: In a weekly report of the German Institute for Economic Research (DIW) speaks labor market researcher Karl Brenke, of which I by the many discussion contributions on Best of HR – Berufebilder.de® have been convinced for some time (or at least that it can not be as serious as many do ..)
I found the interview with the well-known US sociologist Richard Sennett just fitting: In an interview with WN-TV, he explained the negative effects of short-term contracts on employees and the productivity of a Company have and how politics ours Working world in Future would have to design.
And certainly not as it is claimed again and again that we have a shortage of skilled workers in Germany, for example, the Association of German Engineers (VDI) or the Federal Employment Agency. On the contrary, Karl Brenke even fears an impending lack of skilled workers for some areas. But how does that fit in with the General Skilled Labor Deficiency Hysteria?
The story got started when Spiegel Online reported in advance on a DIW study last Tuesday: In a weekly report published yesterday (to be downloaded free of charge as a PDF), Karl Brenke, Scientific Advisor on the Board of DIW Berlin, explains why he currently does not believe in a shortage of skilled workers: “We cannot rule it out that we in some Industries will have a glut of skilled workers. Currently, only a few areas can be identified where there is a lack of skilled workers. This is most likely still the case with the doctors.”
The study should, it said Spiegel-Online, actually appear on Tuesday. But she didn't. When I asked the press office, I found out that it was supposed to be late. Reason: Because Brenke not only the general ruling Opinions from the shortage of skilled workers, but also in particular his Executive, the DIW President Klaus Zimmermann contradicts, the study had to be revised again quickly - or added, as the DIW press office said.
What was new was obviously the statement that Brenke's theses only refer to the next 3-5 years. Apart from that, the forecasts usually go wrong anyway, you don't take a long future oracle anyway - right? “A lot went wrong”, the press lady from DIW also knew to report, at which after the SPONArticle by Tuesday the phones were no longer idle. Mr. Zimmermann would probably have preferred to withdraw the study, which was no longer possible. Instead, you could only put them into perspective.
And what's in it now? Well, Karl Brenke has eagerly compiled all sorts of figures and well founded his theses. The possible flood of skilled workers is justified with several statistical values. At the same time, Benke refutes investigations by the Institute for German Studies Economy as methodologically questionable. And Brenke does one thing right away clear: So far, there are no scientific procedures at all that map the entire labor market and thus make a definitive statement about the macroeconomic skilled labor gap.
In Germany, for example, there is a lack of meaningful current data on wage developments in individual occupations, there are only figures on wages in individual groups of skilled workers. And the information on vacancies and the unemployed only contains the figures from the Federal Employment Agency – anything that is not reported there does not appear in the statistics. And not everything that is reported as a vacancy is really vacant (e.g. in the case of changers). Everything factors each statistic fast make less accurate.
In addition, according to Brenke, there must be a distinction between university graduates and specialists with operational skills Vocational Training be differentiated. With the latter, there could actually be a shortage at some point - if you don't get the young people to do it studieren what is needed in the labor market. Another oracle...
But what is really so explosive in the study? For example, wages for skilled workers had hardly risen, as would be the case with bottlenecks, and they have not developed better than those of other employees since 2009. The number of students and graduates has been rising since 2007.
The most important factor, however, is that the number of unemployed is higher than the number of vacancies, according to the Federal Agency for Employment and Calculations of DIW. Brenke sees a significant bottleneck only among the vulcanists, electrical installers and physicians.
And the latter stupidly prefer to migrate to Scandinavia, even though medical training is so expensive: Brenke states: "Germany subsidizes other countries!"
By the way, not only: Karen, open the whole discussion Best of HR – Berufebilder.de® initiated and, thank you, I still look forward to every publication on the subject I aufmerksam also emigrated to Sweden: "I have not regretted my decision to turn my back on Germany for a minute and would do it again."
But where does the discrepancy between the previous tonality and this study come from? Behind held Hand Affected suspect manipulations by the employer side with the Objective, by a large selection on well-trained, local flexible workers, and on the other hand, to be able to phase out older engineers.
That sounds logical in a way, but as long as I don't have the evidence, I'd rather assume general ignorance, misjudgments and statistical inaccuracies on all sides: After all, German companies are still giving a lot at the moment Money from to im Internet, at career fairs or elsewhere well trained Boy People interested in a job at their company. And they wouldn't do that if they didn't need the people - right?
This is how Bernd Schmitz, Head of University Marketing at Bayer AG in Leverkusen, writes Best of HR – Berufebilder.de®: “I can say for Bayer that we are constantly new Employees hire – over 2009 academics in 300 alone. A large proportion of these are graduates with an engineering degree.” But Schmitz also admits: “Personally, I would only speak of a shortage if open vacancies cannot be filled within a reasonable period of time. So far, we at Bayer have been able to fill all vacancies with new employees.”
Anyone who wanted to think ill of it could now say that this is of course pure image cultivation by various companies - practically advertising. And that the tactic serves to be able to skim off the cream from a large pool of graduates later on. But maybe you just really have Anxiety, later downstairs without standing there?
But what also became clear in the discussion in the blog: one or the other is inclined to take the word shortage of skilled workers literally. In any case, a shortage doesn't mean that companies are so desperate that they hire everyone: you're still looking to see if there are technical ones qualification, the specialization and personal factors, such as mobility or Teamwork, voices!
Mechanical engineer Marcus, who graduated in November 2009 and then worked there until August 2010, also had to realize this Job Search was. After more than 50 applications and 4 unsuccessful job interviews he writes: “Most of the time, the rejection was justified by the fact that my qualifications did not quite meet the requirements. Well, I finished my studies with 2,4, but I also have technical training and I did my practical semester abroad.”
Meanwhile, he emigrated - to Switzerland, where it worked with only two applications. Are German companies too stupid to recognize good people?
The fact is: many employers prefer to keep looking, despite the need, than unsuitable ones Candidates - as Birgitt Dondorff proves scientifically in this article and as this computer scientist reports, who prefers to remain anonymous:
“We are looking at our Company software developers in the Rhein-Main area. But most of us will too Candidate rejected. Applicants must have practical experience in the programming languages and operating systems we use and speak English very well. You should also have knowledge of the stock market environment. We are under so much pressure that we can hardly train new people and it is therefore not possible to hire beginners. However, we definitely hire people over 50. Often there is also a lack of interpersonal relationships Communication. We just can't imagine some people on our teams. If a new hire turns out to be underperforming, they will be fired outright.”
The shortage of skilled workers in Germany could end badly in the long run: more and more new students studying with high expectations on the labor market, but not finding a job and then moving away. Bad investment for the state - also because, for example, money is invested in surplus subjects, while being saved at another point.
So maybe it's time to discuss something different about this topic?
Although this is a serious topic, I have opted for a semi-ironic view - I hope you understand that.
Anyway, thank you to the well above 100 commentators who have been contributing to this topic for months with their testimonials, comments and links to more information. On monday my article will appear on RP-ONLINE. This is really crowdsourcing!
Update: The comments are of course as always with many more information, links and hints. Just join in the discussion!
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Simone Janson is publisher, Consultant and one of the 10 most important German bloggers Blogger Relevance Index. She is also head of the Institute's job pictures Yourweb, with which she donates money for sustainable projects. According to ZEIT owns her trademarked blog Best of HR – Berufebilder.de® to the most important blogs for careers, professions and the world of work. More about her im Career. All texts by Simone Janson.
In the search for a recent study, I have come across this study. Very interesting, but also needs still current information. Someone tips for me?
Hello Phimea,
this summer there was an ARD report on the topic, I have collected some information and reader feedback with more current material here. What are you looking for exactly?
@NikolausKoller Well, it doesn't seem that clear: and -> MINT skills gap ...
Thanks for tip to the topic angebl. FK deficiency in D RT @Birgit_Dondorff in this blog has, among other things, 1 Ing. Commented @mab__
@fissol @mab__ in this blog has comment on1 ing
@ b4shot very nice, "don't rant about the shortage of skilled workers" (FAZ) - in addition
@alekscee @SenseiDesign @enypsilon Sometimes there are really useful comments #crowdsourcing
@mauisurfer25 if you ever look for another example of crowdsourcing
Hallo,
here are a few links that can help you decide on emigration:
Regards
Karen
Hello Karen, thank you for the research and the links. On the topic of working abroad / emigration I would like to do something else!
Hello Karen, Dirk, Birgit,
Birgit certainly has a good start, a new start is certainly difficult. However, I can see from my own experience abroad that a new country with a different mentality brings with it not only linguistic difficulties. However, it is certainly also dependent on the individual case.
But that would be such a topic about which again a separate article would be worthwhile ..
@ Damaged: Of course, every company knows how their own staff is. However, as a company, you may not have an overview of what it will look like in the entire labor market or in the coming years.
Apart from that, I also rather tend to point to the fact that the issue is launched rather on the corporate side rather than the policy side. Since there is no evidence, I do not like to be so contented with conspiracy theories.
Generally: I'm on the road until Thursday evening and have only sporadically Internet. Therefore, I may ask for some patience with the answers.
Thank you.
@Simone, why shouldn't this be the intention of companies and “HR agencies”? Should we now assume that the companies are acting so unprofessionally that they do not know how their workforce is doing? Why do Bosch, Daimler & Co. push their engineers into engineering groups that are not bound by collective bargaining agreements and that pay significantly less?
Are we to assume that the engineers are running into the company today (100 top applicants for 1 vacant, "airy" position) so that the poor applicants have to go through the STUPIDEST recruitment tests, but the employers are so naive as to think they could last 50 years plan for the future?
How do the 34000 sites come into the industry every year, which are included in the engineering bill, even though the industry is still losing ~ 2% of jobs every year? Does not this sound like a false message from the companies?
By the way: 2 years ago I accompanied 3 engineers on their way to 1x Norway and 2x Switzerland. Back then: low 1-digit applications, almost always an interview. A 0815 electrical engineer career starter, written off by the ARGE in Germany, wrote 5 applications to Switzerland and landed 5 hits, he was then hired directly for his chosen job without multiple “rounds” as is common in perverted Germany. The biggest hurdle - the Swiss bureaucracy - was taken over by the company. It was hired faster than Bosch responded to an interesting application with the first round of introductions. And his job is also with a large corporation!
Germany does not need any engineers, so I have resigned myself. I would only find it fair if you got the chance to change your job AND NOT lure students into ruin.
@Dirk
Certainly there are risks! But isn't there a national one too ?! (Apart from any linguistic matters - except if I orient myself to A, CH, possibly NL)
The job orientation of, for example, Eg NRW to Berlin or Munich: building the social environment; Over the trial period or even first search!
Greeting Birgit Dondorff
@ Karen
“It's just that everyone who leaves Germany has a job in the country of emigration. You can only leave Germany if you have a job in the new country. Anything else would be an incalculable risk. "
But I can't confirm that. You often only get the job if you already live in the country in question - despite the internet, possibly you first have to acquire a certain language skills there and find out where there are suitable and sufficiently paid jobs. A remote application has a chance of success only under certain conditions (actual shortage of skilled workers, unique selling point of the job seeker - e.g. German language). Or you can settle for a simple activity in order to make ends meet and continue searching in parallel.
I would like to point out that many people break off their stay abroad after a few months or a year or two. In the beginning you approach everything very euphorically and you are happy to have finally left “bad” Germany. However, this mood can change relatively quickly, especially if you don't have a supportive environment in the new country (e.g. a resident partner) and or you get into financial difficulties.
@Karen: Thanks for the link. Habs not yet managed with the listen, but will not be forgotten.
@Birgit: I have to think about that first. In the first moment I found this somewhat absurd, also because the lack of skilled workers comes from employers' associations. Perhaps, however, is also the thesis expressed in this blog, that would come from the corporate side (eg to push the wages) exactly as far?
And maybe this simply shows that we do not get along with conspiracy theories of whatever kind, because it is simply a grandiose ignorance of the actual situation with all involved?
One can only remember this: there is no perfect statistical method which can verify or falsify the professional defendant.
gruß
Simone Janson
Hallo,
I had this morning, the link to a broadcast in the SWR, which was sent today from 08: 15, from a former Studienkollegen get. I could not see the show live in Sweden. But also the link was very interesting. It shows the appreciation that companies bring to their employees. I could also find this myself in my work in Germany as a H4-Aufstockerin. Compared to my experience (very short) in Sweden, however, I can notice a serious difference. I am not treated as a disposition, but as a person. Sweden is not the paradise either. Performance is required just as in Germany, but I am treated as a human being. One can not generalize this, there are certainly other examples in Sweden and in Germany. I can only speak of my experience.
Here is the link (SWR, WDR, title: Profit at any price market without morals):
Regards
Karen
@Simone
On question 2 I found support through Karen (explanation)
On question 1 I do not want to express myself in detail, when I say,
it is a political interest. I think there is only
limits in the directions described by you!
Greetings and thank you for your understanding,
Birgit Dondorff
[...] Embarrassing dispute over DIW study, media crime and successful crowdsourcing: skills shortage or ni ... at [...]
Ms. Dondorff, that doesn't answer my question - or am I just getting it wrong?
@Karen: Thanks, exactly as I would have explained it (including Munich! :-)
Greeting Birgit
The cost of living is certainly higher. But there is still a lot more to be had in relation to Germany. Of course you can not live in the city center of Stockholm, but outside. But in comparison, you can not live in the center of Munich. The security of permanent employment and a good working environment are also to be underestimated.
Regards
Karen
Embarrassing dispute over DIW study, media thriller and successful ...: A current study by DIW spr ... #Crowdsourcing
@ Karen: Thanks for the description of the almost paradisiacal sounding conditions in Scandinavia .. apart from perhaps the somewhat unfair application process ...
@Birgit Dondorff: I've read it several times now, but unfortunately I didn't understand the context ...
Of course it would be better for everyone if the salaries were high ...
But they are not because we do not seem to have a shortage of skilled workers. Conversely, salaries would increase automatically because politicians call for a shortage of skilled workers, but rather because the company cannot find anyone ... Or do you think that this is a failed attempt by politicians to launch just this?
By the way: In view of the higher cost of living and taxes (or am I wrong?), I think that the salaries are higher in Scandinavia is justified….
Hello in the round,
on the one hand, I suspect a purely political interest.
As small. Explanation: Our specialists (specialists and academics) are particularly popular in the Scandinavian area, as well as NL, Denmark and Switzerland, etc.:
a) Quality of education
b) Price - in other words, desired salary
But the normal local ones are much more settled than one is willing to pay.
In the end, of course, Germany would be unable to recruit from these countries due to their salary.
Greeting Birgit
It is also a different think. Employees are viewed abroad as human capital and not as a cost factor, which is immediately reduced in the event of a profit collapse. The companies invest in the employees and receive, in return, commitment, performance and loyalty. The teams are mixed between the ages. a sliding know-how transfer takes place. With the older engineers, the know-how remains as company capital and is not sent to the early retirement. With the prospect of an employment that does not lead to unemployment with completion of the 50th year of life, one can plan the future.
On the subject of professional strengths: in the Handelsblatt article yesterday and today, that Bayer, Merck and Roche several thousand coworkers were dismissed.
Regards
Karen
Hallo,
not everyone who applies abroad will get a job immediately. It is only that everyone who leaves Deuztschland has a place in the country of emigration. You can only leave Germany if you have a job in the new country. Everything else would be an incalculable risk. However, it is still the case that a job abroad is still being given, as the companies, especially in Scandinavia, are investing in training and further education and thus also giving graduates a chance.
The problem, however, is to get knowledge of a job. Many vacancies are not advertised in Scandinavia, but filled on recommendations. That was also the case for me. A former fellow student had passed my application in-house and recommended me. So it came to an interview on an application. Many who apply directly, also get a rejection. This also applies to Norway and Sweden. There is also no shortage of skilled workers in Scandinavia. Although German training is a welcome plus, a recommendation from an in-house employee opens the door to a job interview. But the technical and human requirements must fit, otherwise there is a rejection.
Regards
Karen
Hallo,
the two articles in Spiegel-Online have been perceived with great interest by engineers of German origin. Two former fellow students from Norway (Oslo and Stavanger) also asked me how the response from the German-born engineers to the article was?
It is a bit surprising that the first publication, which seems very well founded, is turned unfounded in the second article by the leadership of DIW unfavored.
The tenor that Germany will have a strong shortage of skilled workers, caused by the uncertainty of the skilled workers in Germany, prevails not only among the emigrated German engineers. The Swedish colleagues also expect increasing numbers of people leaving Germany. It is a pity that one does not try to keep the German specialists in their own country, but only relies on immigration to Germany, whose insertion is very questionable.
Greetings from the cold Stockholm at 0 degrees and expected snowfall
Karen
Hello Karen and all other interested
nice that the topic is still being dealt with in the cold north (here it is only marginally warmer and raining ... therefore):
Please read carefully: The study, which you can download for free here, has not been twisted into the opposite - it is much too long for that (and, by the way, highly recommended)!
ME has that Spiegel To put it just a little boldly online ... rather, only one passage was added, according to which the forecast period is shorter (right at the beginning including the heading). In addition, here and there in the study there are some qualifying sentences that could have been added later, but may have been there before. The DIW only speaks of additions, I cannot exactly reconstruct that, one would have to compare with the version that SPON had.
However, the basic assumption that there is no specialist deficit is still demonstrated by the study.
Here are some responses from DAX companies -
This also corresponds to what I have heard of staff in recent days and what they really believe. So did me Birgit Dondorff a more scientific concept of explanation from a personal perspective.
Interesting I found this comment on Tagesschau.de, which also seems to confirm many reproaches expressed in the thread, which of course is again only an opinion:
And Eva Zil, also HR (www.online-recruiting.net) says on my Facebook-Page:
The hype is often driven by service providers from the HR industry. Even though I belong to this industry myself, I don't like to use the shortage of skilled workers as a sales argument. In the meantime it's just sucked out…. [End of quote]
I think the truth has something from all aspects.
But if we do not have a shortage of skilled workers, it is obvious to me why people are allowed to migrate: short-term thinking. Rather, I'm surprised that abroad, as you Karen (and there are other examples), so quickly find a job (with only one application). Because there is a desperate search? Or because you think longer term?
Would be an interesting aspect also for the study, which Monika commissioned and whose questions I link here again!
I'm looking forward to more posts!
Simone Janson
Hello Birgit,
Thank you for your contribution. With the opinion you are not alone, as the two discussion heads show.
gruß
Simone Janson
Since 2009 I am in the orientation. However, I am not registered with the employment office as such, but I finance myself in the meantime.
Despite very good qualification profile m. According to practice you have been spoiled for choice ...
I suspect a purely political interest behind it ...
Tweetcount Widget
Skilled labor shortage or not? Discussion about the DIW study - facts, statements, figures, opinions at a glance:
Freshly blogged: Embarrassing about DIW study, media crimes and successful crowdsourcing ...
Embarrassing dispute over DIW study, media thriller and successful crowdsourcing: shortage of skilled workers or ...
Has not happened for a long time, that I needed the whole day for 1 Post-but was worth it # Skills shortage
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