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By Simone Janson (More) • Last updated on October 20.12.2010, XNUMX • First published on 20.12.2010/XNUMX/XNUMX • So far 6376 readers, 1114 social media shares Likes & Reviews (5 / 5) • Read & write comments
I recently went to Best of HR - Berufebilder.de® on the SALE German engineers against their own association, the VDI, pointed out - and pointed out that the figures about a future shortage of skilled workers, which the VDI has been propagating for years, can be refuted. This is now confirmed by a new publication by the German Institute for Economic Research (DIW).
Just a few weeks ago Willi Fuchs, director of the VDI, claimed in the SPIEGEL-ONLINE interview, the average age of engineers is 50 to 51 years; therefore, there is a wave of retirement pending, and thus a large need for replacement. In addition, the club had Criticism energetically rejected in his numbers.
Now published Dr. Karl Brenke, labor market and economic expert at DIW, who had already caused a stir at the end of 2010, new figures in which he took a closer look at the arguments of the VDI - and refuted them. Brenke cannot understand the VDI figures and considers them to be excessive.
In the current weekly report of the DIW and in one Article on Spiegel Online he explains that the alarmism of the VDI refers on the one hand to the open engineer positions at the Federal Employment Agency and on the other hand to the age structure of the engineers.
In your well researched post on ZEIT ONLINE explains editor Tina Groll, how the VDI comes to the shortage of skilled workers - a calculation that Brenke does not consider reputable:
“The association bases its calculation on a survey from 2009. According to this, only every seventh engineering position is reported to the Federal Agency. Therefore, the club multiplies this number by a factor of seven. This number is then compared with the number of registered unemployed engineers - currently there are 18.882 people. In this way, the VDI can fill the gap of 87.000 specialists.
And what about the age structure? According to micro census 2008 were in Germany around 750000 engineers active. Her average age was 43,3 years. Less than a third of them were 50 years and older.
"Although engineers enter the job market relatively late due to their long training period, the average age is no higher than in other academic professions," said DIW expert Brenke.
Since there has been no radical political in recent years Measures or developments on the job market for engineers, Brenke assumes that the age structure of engineers may have shifted slightly at best. Brenke says:
"I don't think it's realistic that from 2008 to now the average age has increased by seven years to 50-51 years",
This is also supported by the current employment statistics of the Federal Agency for Labor of June 2011.
DIW Berlin is assuming that there will be around half the need for replacement engineers in the coming years.
“An annual requirement of 40000 engineers – just to replace the retirees – cannot be realistically derived from the available figures, because then all employed engineers who are now 50 years old and older would have to retire within 5 ½ years. If you calculate fairly, you come to about 20000 people who retire every year for reasons of age.”
Due to the upswing after the financial crisis, the number of engineers has risen overall – among those subject to social security contributions between 2008 and 2011 by an average of 1,5 percent per year. Brenke explains:
“Although this growth rate is not low, it is also not much higher than the average for all employees subject to social security contributions. There it was 1,1 percent. In recent years there has been a veritable run for engineering study places,” says the DIW labor market expert. So in 2010 around 50000 students have their Study in an industry-related engineering course. "Only the graduates who are currently coming out of the universities can cover the entire need for engineers."
Brenke therefore advocates a more realistic view of engineering needs in the current decade.
“Starting a career can be for Boy engineers become increasingly difficult when there is a glut of graduates.”
The Association of German Engineers made another press release clearthat in Germany in near Future a strong shortage of skilled workers is to be expected. Evidence: the number of vacancies in November 2010, which, by the way, blatantly contradict those of Karl Brenke.
It works a little for me like: “What do I care about the statistics from last month. We'll get him the shortage of skilled workers - but now really! ” In detail, it reads like this:
In November 2010, the shortage of engineers worsened. According to the VDI/IW engineer monitor, around 47.000 engineers were missing. The increase of almost eight percent compared to the previous month resulted on the one hand from the increase in vacancies to 70.000. At the same time, engineering unemployment figures fell again in November light by two percent to 23.600. 15.800 and thus most vacancies were again in Baden-Württemberg, followed by 13.600 vacancies in North Rhine-Westphalia and almost 10.000 in Bavaria. With 24.500 jobs, the largest number of vacancies was again advertised for mechanical and vehicle engineers, 15.700 for electrical engineers and 12.300 for civil engineers. For the professional group of electrical engineers, this means an increase of almost 5 percent compared to October 2010, compared to the same month last year even by 41,4 percent.
Incidentally, the source for the figures in this report are the calculations of the Institute for Germans Economy. At Karl Brenke, the figures look completely different - for example, the mechanical and vehicle construction engineers addressed by the VDI:
Here, in October 2010, Brenke could only make 3.366 vacancies. And 2008, before the economic crisis it was also only 5.018 (see page 7 in the study).
As this strong discrepancy comes to explain brand expert Brenke also right himself - namely on page 4 his study (which is here as PDF) - namely, on the one hand from a calculation error and, secondly, because not all registered vacancies actually are free:
The German Economic Institute (IW) has tried to Combination to record the supply and demand for engineers, for example, from company surveys and data from the Federal Employment Agency. On the basis of a relatively small sample, it is thus ascertained how many Companys to report their vacancies for engineers to the Federal Employment Agency. On this basis, a factor is calculated which extrapolates the number of vacancies reported at the employment service to reflect the total demand for engineers. Finally, the factor seven was used - the number of open engineering positions at the Federal Agency was multiplied by seven.
Karl Brenke then explains why the process is problematic:
However, it is not permissible to simply extrapolate the vacancies using a calculated multiplier. Because from a macroeconomic point of view, only those vacancies are relevant for measuring the need for skilled workers that arise when a company wants to increase its staff, or because Employees retire from employment in this country and are to be replaced. However, job advertisements are often only due to a change of company. An example: An employee who is still working in the company has a professional change announced and thus triggered a job advertisement. This employee is now applying for a job advertisement with another employer, which was placed because an employee in his company wants to change careers. Several vacancies have arisen in this way, but no additional ones Workplace and not even a vacancy due to the retirement of an employee.
I would wish that VDI and IW would join if they were already different Opinions are able to critically examine Brenke's study and discuss his theses. Silencing the DIW study and simply continuing as before does not seem very transparent and credible. An open discussion would be more conducive to the topic!
Or do you think that this short contribution with a few loosely dropped examples can invalidate a whole study? I think this is a little lean and little meaningful. The Institute for German Business and the VDI is apparently of a different opinion.
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Simone Janson is publisher, Consultant and one of the 10 most important German bloggers Blogger Relevance Index. She is also head of the Institute's job pictures Yourweb, with which she donates money for sustainable projects. According to ZEIT owns her trademarked blog Best of HR – Berufebilder.de® to the most important blogs for careers, professions and the world of work. More about her im Career. All texts by Simone Janson.
Hello Simone,
I think it would be time for a reflection of the news:
After the Spiegel FINALLY this reported:
“Skilled Worker Shortage - Who's Afraid of the Killer Statistics?”
"Nobody needs the engineer anymore"
Reported his economic wing once again:
"And here lies the biggest problem of the shortage of skilled workers: As many entrepreneurs and personnel consultants are currently complaining about, companies do not suffer from too few applicants for their positions, but lack of good, suitable candidates - the shortage of skilled workers is of a qualitative nature."
Once again, the perverse PR carousel is turning, this time with a ridiculously windy twist.
Comment 15: I would LOVE to write something on the entire topic, but I don't have the time for really competent research. In addition, the topic of the different skilled workers would not be for me, I am a researcher and have nothing to do with production, even with development (where the main part of the engineers work) and only few points of intersection with it ...
Hello My,
apart from the fact that I understand their displeasure very well:
This is the most creative comment I have ever received! What a cool idea! I'll make my own posting!
With messages like this one was promised to me here and after four years of hard study and three-year "transitional unemployment" I have to admit that contributions like this undercut the situation far. As a graduate industrial engineer (manufacturing technology, FH) I have even with these exploiters no chance of hiring. So when I look at messages like I feel like and and I can
Hello “injured party”, what I would find really interesting: This distinction between the various professionals. In the general discourse, a lot of things are lumped together that don't belong together, and this leads to a series of misjudgments.
Couldn't you write something about it? Because for that you have to be very deep into the topic - I couldn't work that deep due to lack of time (currently writing a book). But ME needs a differentiation. And there is far too little differentiation.
Here you can also write an article by Anonymous. Or just by E-Mai. But also with name and photo.
I am rather surprised at how smooth and professional the lobbying is. I probably read too much Spiegel and similar publications, but I can already see from the first approaches of articles (which are now quickly becoming series) where the wind is blowing long before the “main articles” that are supposed to legitimize politics are published. The concept for “securing skilled workers”, which was published incredibly quickly, speaks volumes, I have serious fears.
Blog contributions were already planned by me on the blog of a friend, but then never came about. I think solid research from professionals are more meaningful than my opinion. But let's look, I need to communicate.
By the way, when I look at your IT staff article, I also notice that one should differentiate between the “skilled workers” that I am looking for, that is, to use the designation skilled worker or engineer more clearly. For me, a web server or SAP module programmer is not an engineer or a computer scientist, just like a cutting machine operator is not a mechanical engineer who has developed the CNC milling machine (and a business graduate is not at the checkout at Karstadt either). It would be sad if you needed a computer scientist for such work, which also devalues the appropriate training occupations. And when it comes to the shortage of skilled workers, the press is currently mainly talking about electrical engineers like me. I also specialize in ICT, but I would NOT start out as an IT expert according to the type of reading. B. Name your article.
There is a new one from the Special Forces Bullshitbingo (Heise-Link, since the message is quite clear there):
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bundesregierung-beschliesst-Konzept-gegen-Fachkraeftemangel-1265581.html
@Simone, you did not even want to research the topic, including discussion with the DIW? That would fit now.
Bottom line: cheap workers will be attracted from abroad, but they will be immediately left behind (see “Computer Indians” who like to go back to India or simply move on to the USA ...), but at the time the domestic workers were so good pressured that engineering salaries STILL fall further. According to Brüderle, this A…., We MINT'ers didn't earn more than 40000 € anyway (after 5 years of work, we'd also like 42000 €). We are not lawyers whose importance justifies the exorbitant fee regulation ...
Hi Damaged, when I yesterday this article published, I have already counted with a corresponding comment.
Now, I find the exciting thrust of the federal government now again not so exciting: It is nothing really new, that one holds on the specialist power, was to be expected. Now, wait and see what's going on.
But how about if you opened a blog on the topic yourself - I would then link it - or even write a guest post here in the blog =
Regards
Simone Janson
For the sake of completeness:
http://www.abendblatt.de/wirtschaft/article1851502/Zeitarbeitsfirmen-finden-kaum-noch-neue-Mitarbeiter.html
Now the temporary workers crawl out of the holes and do what many (including me) have already expected: they will try to avoid all sensible hurdles and flood the German labor market with low-cost jobs. Thanks to government this is possible without problems.
And the bridge to the topic: all temporary employment engineers, engineering service providers and “service / consulting” companies put together, the engineers represent the largest or at least one of the largest groups of temporary workers in Germany. Unfortunately ...
Hi Damaged, this is interesting, thank you! Since I will ask times with the left. Please be patient!
There is something "new" about the shortage of skilled workers:
Incidentally, the left has been dealing with the issue of skilled labor for years, always with the same result: it does not exist. Incidentally, that is usually the government's RESPONSE to requests from the left for reliable figures and sources on the shortage of skilled workers. For over a year the left have been very active in parliament, and again: the OFFICIAL ANSWER from the government: “We can't tell you where the shortage of skilled workers is either”. I thank the government for such a good job.
Update: Since there is currently nothing to report on the topic, and since I am admittedly also busy with other things, I will pick up on the subject of shortage of skilled workers at a later date with a retrospective stocktaking and also closer to the above-discussed monthly report of the VDI from December 2010. Meanwhile, I ask for patience: Who wants to download the questionable monthly report and make himself a picture, he finds no more underneath the original address.
However, the VDI has taken the criticism to heart and revised the download page - so just search.
@ Damaged then I'm happy that I could help.
Yes, this is how a blog works: The articles are sorted chronologically, older articles are retained and are not deleted or improved, which ensures transparency. If the numbers there are different from those in the newer articles, it is probably because the newer numbers have only been known since mid-November - we discussed the previous lack of reliable studies often enough on the blog in the months before.
I am also pleased that you are concerned about the state of journalism in Germany: Perhaps you have as someone who is obviously worthy of critical journalism also lays out ideas for funding? Ulrike Langer's suggestion on this matter has already been linked to elsewhere:
http://medialdigital.de/2010/04/23/inhalteproduzenten-brauchen-neue-wertschopfungsketten-meine-keynote-beim-cologne-web-content-forum/
@dob: Thank you for your very differentiated approach to the topic. I'll take up the topic again in January - at the moment it's Christmas break in Germany anyway, and I'll be busy with a new book until mid-January - unfortunately I can't make a living from the blog ;-)
On the subject of 'job changers', I would like to add that I find the IW / VDI point of view quite plausible here. But it is idealized because at no point in time more job postings than immediately! vacancies exist. This applies to their entire labor market model and would even make sense if one were to admit that the figures derived from this do not apply absolutely, but can only show trends.
With the so-called “engineering gap” of the VDI, it is immediately noticeable that they tried very hard to find a multiplier on the demand side ('seven'), while on the supply side they steadfastly count on 'one'. According to the definition, the offer is made by all jobseekers! Engineers, i.e. unemployed + graduates (who do not yet have any ALV entitlements) + freelancers without employment (who often do not pay into the ALV in order to remain independent of the employment agency) + Ings slipped in Hartz IV. (how uncomfortable!).
Not only in the Ingeneurmonitor itself I find no word to this, also not in the associated method report.
@Simone. Nice that my words do not remain hidden.
I see how differentiated you are dealing with the topic meanwhile, please do not misunderstand but I must point to something if I have always been accused of polemics:
In some (one?) Of your older articles TODAY it says that the alleged shortage of skilled workers would at least ALSO come about through retirement (more Ingi pensioners than graduates). Now even the IW study says that this would not be the case (too lazy to look but have something in mind with 36000 retirees versus 47000 graduates). Even according to this study (!), A deficiency only arises from 34000 “new” engineering positions falling from the sky.
That means, Simone, either you had another study on hand when writing the article (and I would like to see it) or you have done what many journalists do today: interpreted cheap PR material without research and converted it into an article. And against this type of power PR I use polemics - quite blatant, but backed up with solid arguments. Unfortunately, suit-and-suitcase lies are more likely to prevail than evil, evil irony ...
Hello Dob,
You are right, I overlooked the “Appendix” because it was not clearly identified as further material - so much for the topic of user usability :-) But luckily, I have attentive readers like you, thank you very much.
And you are right, the first time I read it, I noticed a few points of criticism - I will read and comment on that in between the years.
Sometimes happy holidays!
Simone Janson
Hello Mrs. Janson,
as an engineer, I am very pleased that you will continue to be on the ball with this subject and will place greater trust in the numerous readers' reports on the web and a critical study than those of employer-oriented institutions.
But it almost seems to me that you have overlooked the more detailed statement of the IW on the DIW study, to which a link under your link 'this short article' leads.
Of course, this opinion does not persuade me, although (or just because) a whole lot of figures are being thrown around, which are, in stark contrast, my own experiences on the labor market.
The IW tries (in point 6) to explain why its 'counting method' is still correct in the event of a change of company. This is puzzling to me, because assuming that no new positions were created, with this perspective one would still have regularly advertised 'open' positions.
Almost cynically, I also find point 3, in which a rising wage leap from Ings. to low qualified personnel (personal note: whose wages were pushed even more).
Similarly, point 1, which states that 60% of all Ings are employed in service industries. Is it just behind the fact that the industry is your Ings. primarily concerned about personnel services.
I had already missed you and I am delighted that you will stay with us as a commentator - mainly because of the haunting imagery of your choice of words.
Purely stylistically, I find their comparison so successful that I have to twitter.
Thank you!
In the matter I still prefer to keep to the facts!
The question of the “different opinion” was of a rhetorical nature and related to the fact that a few examples in a press release tried to invalidate an entire study.
Despite all the annoyance nice holidays
SJ
IW and VDI do not disagree, as criminal attempts are being made to produce young heating material. We do not talk here of teleshopping, which sells me Ramschfitnessgeräte for 60 €. For example, For example, had ruined my life with this perverted, man-despised occupation, for when I began to study, the engineers were racing on the radio. Ultimately, Germany will lose the mass of good, motivated engineers and these will be replaced by a huge mass of cheap, dissatisfied engineering workers.
I dare to say the engineers are the Chinese brickwork workers among the academics, incredible stress and hopelessness with steadily falling salaries.
Frisch blogged: Jetzt however! - VDI prognosticates again professional strength: painting by numbers
But now! - VDI predicts a shortage of skilled workers again: Painting by numbers: A good month is ...
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